Online and off-line editing?

[PatrickCoyle]

I've read several filmmaking books and I still don't quite get the online and offline editing thing? Can someone explain it in "For Dummies" terms? I get the idea in terms of film stock transferred to video and HD downgraded to DV, but I don't understand how online and offline really works because I don't get it at all when it comes to stuff that's actually shot on mini-DV in the first place.

[Dave]

Offline editing is the film and television production process in which raw footage is copied and edited, without affecting the camera original film or tape. Once a programme has been completed in offline, the original media will be conformed, or on-lined, in the online editing stage. Offline editing is often considered the most creative stage of the post-production process.

When the offline editing is complete, the pictures need to be re-assembled, at full, or 'online' resolution. When this process is complete, then any visual effects, titles, captions and color correcting need to be applied.

You know how your computer is connected to the internet? Well that's what I used to find the answer!
Good question though, I didn't know either until I looked up the answer on the internet(!) ;D

[PatrickCoyle]

It still doesn't explain to me how online and offline work with mini-DV... And in terms of film, how does the online process actually work?

[Dave]

Ahh good question! Now I'm stuck for a sarky comment.

Looking back at your first post, it looks like there's more to your question than there was before. Probably not though, it was no doubt just me not reading the whole ppost because I was so eager to act the smart-arse.
The egg seems to have been on my face all along!

[PatrickCoyle]

Haha! I know the information is out there, but I prefer to get it second-hand. And yeah, I was after a bit more specific stuff than I could've gotten from a basic Googling!

Once the offlining is all done, does someone still have to go through and cut the film in the traditional way? Or is there some kind of machinery do-jig that does it all?

The reason I was asking in the first place though is that I'm wondering if there is a "perfect" way to edit stuff shot on mini-DV. Stuff I've shot before has looked okay projected on the big screen, but as I'm starting to move into more "proper" territory, I want to know what to look out for.

An idiot's guide to a Panasonic DVX100 would also be nice.

[Tom]

Hi - okay, you have to separate MiniDV editing an film stock editing completely. MiniDV editing is simpler, because with film stock, you literally cut the reel and tape it back where you want your cuts to appear. You do this on a Steinbeck (I think that's the name) or more recently you can use Avid to decide where your cuts will be.

Don't worry yourself with tradition here - film making is over 100 years old and so are some of the techniques. MiniDV offers a similar 'offline' process - you don't edit the original tape, just the information you take from it.

Because film stock I expensive, and shooting over and over is repetitive, you duplicate your original reels, and edit those. That way, if you don't like a cut, you still have your original negatives that you can duplicate again.

There is a no more 'perfect' way of editing with MiniDV than by using a non-linear editing programme such as Final Cut or Adobe Premiere.

Reading all the books is useful, but also confusing. I took what I thought was necessary and ran off and did it. If you keep your camera clean - no silly in camera effects (black and white included) and shoot plenty, you'll be fine. All the effects you could ever need (including black and white) can be added in post-production, or 'offline' editing.

Hope this helps.

[PatrickCoyle]

icharus said:

Hi - okay, you have to separate MiniDV editing an film stock editing completely. MiniDV editing is simpler, because with film stock, you literally cut the reel and tape it back where you want your cuts to appear. You do this on a Steinbeck (I think that's the name) or more recently you can use Avid to decide where your cuts will be.

I'm aware of this, but the thing that I don't understand is how that then works - does a human take the offline Avid edit and use the EDLs to manually cut the film on an old Steinbeck? Obviously it's of no current practical use to me, I'm just curious. And then factoring optical effects and grading into that even further confuses me.

There is a no more 'perfect' way of editing with MiniDV than by using a non-linear editing programme such as Final Cut or Adobe Premiere.

Now this is what I was wondering. Thanks, icharus. I'm just suspicious of Sony Vegas and the resolution of the clips it captures. I'll more than likely be editing on FCP from now on, anyway.

If you keep your camera clean - no silly in camera effects (black and white included) and shoot plenty, you'll be fine. All the effects you could ever need (including black and white) can be added in post-production, or 'offline' editing.

This was another question I've had, I'm not sure if I've asked it here before - does something shot in black and white look exactly the same as something shot in colour and edited into b & w?

[Tom]

Pretty much looks the same when shot b&w. The good thing of using a programme to do it means you can use various levels.

Think of La Haine, a film that was shot film stock in colour that was then converted to b&w, It has a rich tone. Raging bull, shot b&w, has a less 'perfect' sheen. The key thing is that film stock and the grading process affect the final look massively. Digital editing allows you to replicate the same sort of things. For example, night-bird (my flawed debut, dtreaming on was all shot colour, but converted to b&w.

And as far as someone doing the work manually on a steinbeck, yes, that's what happens. A technician will cut the film, and then hand stcik it all back together, using the Steinbeck to chop and paste. A laborious task. Imagine a literal version of what we do in FCP or Vegas. It's just like that, but all by hand.

[RydCook]

I have found this thread a very interesting read, learnt many things! Great having threads like this to read through.