*FILM* The Paper Round

[RydCook]

fattaxi said:

Ryd, you commented on how you would have liked Phill the homeless guy to come back and save the day. But once again Martin was going for that real feel, and unfortuantly life isn't always happy endings, perhaps if Phill had been there it would never have happened, but alas... its the sliding doors theory, Phill the hypothetical protector of the bridge had to be moved on for helping someone out. I think If I remember correctly that there was a section where the police had explained to Phill what the young lad told them and he had majorly exajorated the story, and claimed that Phil was threatening to kill them or something.

Also Ryd I'm glad you mentioned the dog scene.... heres a little bit of trivia for you.... I was the dog.

Mesach Harris who played the role of Jason may appear familar to some of you. He's a supporting actor in such films as Batman Begins, Children Of Men, The Bourne Supremecy, Sahara and Breaking and Entering... He's also a member of the band Ivory.

Yes i suppose thats kinda cool, that life isn't always happy endings. But i really think a happy ending would have suited the film? But to be honest i'm up for sad/unhappy endings theres not enough of them. For example I love the edning of The Night Of the Living Dead. But the ending for the paper round seemed odd. i dunno.

Great dog acting buddy! Ha ha.

I've seen 3 of those films and i don't remember him! I'll look out for him in futeure viewings, i love Batman Begins.

[RydCook]

blackout said:

fattaxi said:

Cheers guys for all your comments. Hi Tom at Blackout too glad to see you've joined the boards.

I hope I get this right and maybe you can correct me Tom but one of the reasons for constant movement is that Martin the director, who is a very close (but not gay) friend of mine is very much inspired by Junet and Gondry. When you watch a film such as Ameile the camera always seems to be in constant movement, and its those lovely epic crane shots that Martin was aspiring to produce. Also Martin wanted to get across the a feeling that the film is real life, so some of the more documentry shots I think get this across.

Ryd, you commented on how you would have liked Phill the homeless guy to come back and save the day. But once again Martin was going for that real feel, and unfortuantly life isn't always happy endings, perhaps if Phill had been there it would never have happened, but alas... its the sliding doors theory, Phill the hypothetical protector of the bridge had to be moved on for helping someone out. I think If I remember correctly that there was a section where the police had explained to Phill what the young lad told them and he had majorly exajorated the story, and claimed that Phil was threatening to kill them or something.

Also Ryd I'm glad you mentioned the dog scene.... heres a little bit of trivia for you.... I was the dog.

Mesach Harris who played the role of Jason may appear familar to some of you. He's a supporting actor in such films as Batman Begins, Children Of Men, The Bourne Supremecy, Sahara and Breaking and Entering... He's also a member of the band Ivory.

Thanks to all you guys for watching, and keep the comments and questions coming if you need to know more.

Si
xxx

hey slime,

mart said he will reply later.

i have watched the film through critically and to those who questioned the camera movement - in past films that i have made i have had people sayin that there is more camera movement needed. i feel we have used what was necessary for this film, there are many shots where the use of camera movement could have been employed such as the scenes where the dogs barked.

also it was the paper girls last day - carl was taking her job - she didnt care - didnt want to be there - didnt want to know carl - didnt want to show him around - this is why the dialogue between the two is minimal

and the kerzal reference was becuase the crews catch phrase throughout the productions was "dont fuck about" - trivia

thanks for your comments keep them coming and keep watching !!

Mr Tom

Hmm i think the Dog barking scene was fine as it was. Perhaps it was one extreme to the other? Like not enough movement in other films, but too much in this one? Don't get me wrong its all very well done, and looks superb. But sometimes i just can't see the need, i felt very aware of it. Maybe thats cos i'm a film-maker as well, but Dave felt the same (well he's kind of a film-maker, but using photos and old footage kinda doesn't count ha ha)

With the paper girl's line i agree with Dave. Sounded too.. "i'm gonna say my line now.. there i said it" kinda thing... i just felt the same as Dave. I agree the sort of icy relationship between the two, and her not saying much not wanting to be there and stuff. Perhaps no lines would have been better?

[martman]

Hi everyone, i'm new to the Shane Meadows forums, My name's Martin...I wrote and directed the film thats in discussion in this forum, as well as other films you've previously commented on such as 'The Understudy', 'Out of Date' and 'The Two Quid Kid'.

I'm not just abusing this site for plugging, i am a big fan of Shane's work also...what being a friend of fat taxi's for 3 years and all....

I'm glad that everyone's enjoyed 'The Paper Round' for what it is; you can always count on fans of Shane Meadows to be 'real' film fans and critics, so this is one site where feedback is genuinely appreciated.

Thanks for everyone's opinions and feedback...i'm just going to tell you the reasons for some of the elements in the film, as there's been a little bit of a discussion. I dont want to change your your opinions...it's just to let you know.

*spoilers*

First of all, the film is based on my own paper round and for this reason i wanted to keep certain elements of my real life experience as real as possible. So what 'Gavin and Jason' said at the end is taken word for word (except names of places and people.) My own round ended with me getting mugged by two older people underneath a subway, there was no one to help me, and nothing i could do about it. It was quite a shocking experience and so i wanted to convey this. in real life there is no building up to events like this and no happy resolution. I can understand about wanting a happy ending....but I'm just relating on film what happened, in short i did not want to fictionalise this section.

The film was designed to have different 'sections' and i wanted those sections to be different to each other, for example 'Carl' the paper boy's section was to be very 'comic book' in style, the dialogue was to be minimal....and what was said was to be distinct and out of the blue, infact i'm quite glad you said you were unsure about it or felt it was un natural.

For Gavin and Jason, i wanted their story to be very natural, so improvisation around the script was encouraged. As Meadows fans you might find this scene to be your favorite in the whole film?

A few of you mentioned the stylistic elements. I'm sorry they distracted you from your enjoyment of the film, as film makers we were trying to match the ambition of the storyline with ambitious cinematic conventions.

As for not using cutting and close ups in the film; this was a concious decision, as we felt that by cutting it would fictionalise the film, whereas we wanted it to be very real (with exception to the comic book style of Carl's story)

I can't remember what else you touched on?

Bloody hell....i've written essays shorter than this!

Martin

[halfpint]

Some great camerawork, excellent shots throughout, the crane at the beginning looked ace, and really liked the ones with the chap under the bridge!

I do think it could possibly have been a couple of minutes shorter though, and the scally/chav character could have been a bit meaner when he's giving the kid some stick!

All in all though, an enjoyable piece of work, keep it up fellas.


-Jake (HPP)

[fattaxi]

Hey Folks,

Just thought you would like to know that Mesach Harris who plays Jason, who in turn is my characters best friend is currently appearing in the advert "Knock Off Nigel" look out for him in it! You can see it on youtube....

Cheers guys

Si

[fattaxi]

Bump

[Tom]

Hey.

I just checked this out, and whilst I thought there was plenty to like about it, I think it's quite flawed.

First, the good stuff:

Section three (Gavin and Jason) works well. A minor gripe with the missus being a bit awkwardly placed, but it was still the best of the four parts.

Chemistry is 50% of performance, and seeing it finally show up in the film was it's saving grace. Kudos to you Fattaxi - you deliver well and the constantly misfiring lighter is a great quirk which keeps this grounded. You're a great foil for Jason, and it's here that the film works best.

The shots were mostly well thought out and showed smart design (even if it did make Bery'ls flat look massive). I noted a few 'ripped' shots, but that's they were delivered with panache, so the director should be proud.

Also, the music pretty much served the film very well. Music in film can become a character, and that's how this unfolded.

On the flip, I thought it had some major weak points, but nothing that can't be dusted out in a tight edit. Obviously, others may not agree, but having come from a round of script meetings with the producer of Nina Nobody, I can see the flab hanging all over the film.

Firstly, the guy in the paper shop - the owner. He's not very good and after five seconds of dialogue, you know what he's there for. To give him so many words, well, it doesn't add anything. You have to edit with from the audience's perspective, and this is just filler.

The other major problem for me was the homeless guy - what's the point? I don't mean that to say that the .scene isn't well produced (it is), and I'm sure it had a reason in the initial script, but here, it's just loose. The shots are lovely, but as a 'segment', it's serving no purpose. And even if you dig into it, he's not really provoked by the kids. The shout some daft things at him, but he confronts them, it has no impact. The potential for a powderkeg moment is bypassed and therefore, it just ends up limp and pointless. To then have the police show up (giving dreadful performances) makes this a very neutered scene. I mean, why arrest him? There was nothing there to give it any bite. I know this is a quartet of stories, this could be taken away, and it would be a stronger three-way film. Think about it - minus this section and the whole film just works better.

The run-time is too long. I know people don't mind it, but seriously, unless the film is exceptional (and I mean, Oscar standard like Wasp), not many people are going to care about it. If you send a twenty-three minute film to a festival and they see the opening as slow as this, they'll reject it. You could bring the Gavin and Jason segment forward and you'd be starting strong. To have it all crane shots and no texture is going to put of a lot of at the start. Whilst the film does build (the last 10 minutes are very nice) it takes too long to get there.

I think it's dangerous to just see the neat production value as it's virtue. It should be the story and the performances that are the heart. Fortunately, you have plenty of that in there (Beryl, Jason and Gavin are the best characters), but you have to wait an age to get to them and there's very little to care about beforehand.

I know it's hard to take the step back to make an average film (which this is) good, but the thing on side here is that'd only take a neat bit of editing to do it.

One of the finest films I screened at Bootleg was Clocked, which had great photography, wonderful shots and amazing sound. But more than that, it was tightly cut with a brilliant plot and a seriously strong cast. The best thing is, here you have really good acting next to some pretty amatuer stuff. If you chop out the dead wood, it'd be a fantastic film.

I think it's still a work in progress, but then, that's not my call to make. It's worth thinking about.

Tom.

[fattaxi]

Firstly.... Thank you for the compliment regarding my acting. Ever need an actor you know who to call.

Secondly... as I see it, The homeless guy was seen as the protector of the bridge. He was there to stick up for the boy being bullied and therefore would have stuck up for The Paper Boy.

Thank you very much for watching and your detalied critic.

All the best.

[martman]

Wow, it feels like it's been a while since we made this film...

Thanks for your reply Tom; The quick response to your critique would be that, largely...i agree.

If i could go back and remake this film knowing what i do now, i'm sure it could have been a great deal better and could have even stood up to rivals in any short film competition.

Yes, the film is flabby, even self indulgent at points...and you make some good observations

My thinking at the time of writing the film was that Phil was a guardian of the subway. By having him taken away by the police (yes, cringeworthy performances) i was trying to show the ironies and injustices of the world. This clearly wasn't executed properly so the audience could understand it. perhaps you're right, maybe the scene could have been taken out all together and thus improve the final quality and flow of the piece.

Sometimes casting for student films isn't so easy. I think i Simon and Meshach nailed it with their portrayals of Gavin and Jason. But i do understand most of the other acting was very amateur...which is regrettable.

One thing that i have learned since graduating from a media course at university is that it taught me nothing. Nothing relevant anyway... it was however, a great arena to have a good play at being 'film directors' etc with only self taught film knowledge.

I would like to continue writing and perhaps directing shorts in the future, and even have ideas in the pipeline for future projects, but who knows when i might be able to get round to making things for other people to enjoy

Thanks once again for your kind comments and positive criticism

[shindig]

Meh. There's nowt criminally wrong with it. I just thought the film was a bit bland. Could've done with a bit more bite to the performances, i.e. the couple properly laying into each other rather than sounding really cross with one another.

Not bad but... erm... just... didn't... do owt for me.

[fattaxi]

Thanks for the comments Shindig. What else would you have done to improve? What did you think of the actors playing the chavs.... in paticular the white guy?

[shindig]

I've got no complaints. He's a chav so I'm going to dislike the chainsmoking waster, regardless of performance.

Oh, the black lad didn't sound like a man with no qualifications whatsoever. So, that's a bit of a mindfuck.

[fattaxi]

He very much is though!

[shindig]

But he speaks so elloquently. He must've picked it up from somewhere. Or fought crime during his GCSE fortnight.