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Post by salvador on Jul 12, 2008 16:41:24 GMT
Cheers Tom, hopefully I'll get the film off the computer shortly so you can have a copy. Cheers Jill too! I've I can get it shown anywhere it would be great.
The film is not very conventional, as Tom says. I don't think it will necessarily please a broad audience, but it dos however look and feel exactly as I had imagined it, which is rare in film. Thats not to say that people will like it but it is what I wanted.
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Post by shindig on Jul 13, 2008 7:52:21 GMT
Shindig your criticism on these forums is never constructive. If you came on and explained what you meant instead of little four word jibes ... I've already basically said what I didn't like about it. It's The Parallel's trailer shortened with slightly more of a point to it. I'm guessing the plot's about three couples and then something happens to break them up. Someone gets the shit kicked out of them and then it ends. Probably. Whacking the MSN conversation seems slightly pointless as it's quality doesn't allow you to read much from it. Plus I'd question why it's there in the first place. 3 stories. 3 styles. One film. 13 minutes. So, you've got a limited time and now you're telling 3 stories. On top of that, you've produced a trailer for it and wonder why I don't like it? 13 minutes. 3 stories. One film. Condensed into a trailer under a minute. I really don't understand why you'd go to the effort of producing a trailer for a short, particularly one with 3 stories interwoven into it. There's so much you're (potentially) trying to tell and to condense it further just makes it a muddle. Still, it could be really well written. I just get the sense it'll be another student film, though. Constructive enough? |
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Post by salvador on Jul 13, 2008 8:06:12 GMT
Thanks for that...
1. I'm not a student... so the film will be either "a good film" or a "shite film" but not a "student film".
2. I made this trailer for "fun", just for something to do to let people know I had made something as like I said, it wont go up on youtube itself. I have never made a trailer for a short but thought it be good practice and something to show people.
3. Three stories was the wrong thing to put down I'll give you that... its more three sections that come under certain themes. The film was made in a very specific way using different shooting styles for each "section" and different qualities of equipment, from HD to domestic miniDV. This was done as a directorial decision and for me works better than I ever could have imagined.
4. No they are not torn apart by love..... though the essence of the film is that the audience need to question what is going on and what has happened and what will happen after the film ends, so maybe that will be your take on it. I'll tell you this, a whole lot more thinking went it to making this film than most student films.
5. What is your definition of students films? Is it because they are not shot on the best quality camera with crane shots, great production value etc? I'm sure you know what its like to struggle to pay rent/pay for food etc. Some of us are plain skint but instead of sitting with our thumbs up our arse or go cap in hand to mummy and daddy, we do what we can with what we've got. I'm not saying this is the greatest film ever made, I'm not even saying that many people will like it but I will say that I like it and I'm proud of what was achieved.
6. MSN text.. you are right, a good friend of mine said that too. I think I just didnt want to give too much away. If I was making a "serious" trailer I'd have to rethink the whole thing.
7. Quality of the trailer.... I stated at the top it wasn't the best, again it was made for "Fun"
8. Thanks for the constructive feedback, it actually does help... you've allowed me to have a look at what was wrong with the trailer.
9. Where's your script?
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Post by shindig on Jul 13, 2008 9:08:13 GMT
I was going to define a student film but, frankly I can't. They're very ten a penny, though. Technical quality doesn't bother me.
For something made for fun, you're being overly knee-jerking in your defence.
Point 3 intrigues me, though. With that kind of ambition, if it comes off, it'll look amazing. As for point 7, I've got one feature I'm currently writing whilst a second is awaiting a thumbs up by my writing partner.
I assume you were trying to make a clever dig at how 'you have to be involved to understand' or something.
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Post by salvador on Jul 13, 2008 9:24:14 GMT
For something made for fun, you're being overly knee-jerking in your defence. I assume you were trying to make a clever dig at how 'you have to be involved to understand' or something. I'm an emotive guy what can I say... I don't attempt to be clever and I'm not harking back to something that was jake/paul posted on the Shane Meadows section. I do however feel that it is a lot easier to sit in an ivory tower and criticise everything when you have no real idea of what went into it and the processes and emotional struggle people go through to create something. A shit film is a shit film but it still took someone time and effort to create.. so when something is independent, made without some suits sitting round saying "how can we make quick money" it deserves respect. Respect can be a simple as explaining what you didn't like about it and why it didn't work (as you have now done, thank you) but ultimately people just bark off with no consideration for others. I have been guilty of this in the past but my lesson is learned. I'd be interested to know why you work with a writing partner and not just get on with it? I know that if I waited for others I would get nothing done. Wouldn't you rather just create something rather than be waiting around? |
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Post by shindig on Jul 13, 2008 9:30:12 GMT
I'm working with a writing partner for a couple of reasons. 1) It was partly his idea and he asked if I wanted to work on something with him. 2) He has contacts. I do not.  3) As a relative newcomer, it's a good idea to use him as a crutch. I don't like waiting around for him, though. He's got a feature he wants to get sorted and he's already got a deal for a first option on it. So, whilst I'm waiting, I'm getting concepts down for other films and continuing with writing my 'Plan A'. |
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Post by jill on Jul 13, 2008 9:36:57 GMT
Just wanted to say...after gaining a small insight into the effort-time, money and emotional-that goes into the making of even a short film, I have the greatest respect for you guys and girls. Personally, I thought the trailer was good-I was able to construct my own 'story' through the visual clues and was intrigued enough to want to see it......can't see what else you could have achieved in a minute!
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Post by Tom on Jul 13, 2008 9:53:11 GMT
From my experience, going solo on writing work is the fastest route to success. Nobody gives anyone much money on a first film (if any), so be cautious of using anyone as a crutch. It could hinder you.
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Post by shindig on Jul 13, 2008 10:00:34 GMT
I want my Plan A to make money, though. So it'll be one of those scripts I spend a while refining.
I've got a concept together for a nice, cheap B-movie so that'll be my first film, probably. Frankly, I'm already seeing the pitfalls of using somebody as a crutch.
I want to get stuff done ASAP whilst my partner's got other things on. So I'm sitting on my hands waiting for him to get back to me.
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Post by dude on Jul 13, 2008 10:09:29 GMT
With Tom here write on your own it's your film idea etc soon as two people write you must both be on the same page etc .Could end up with be two people pulling in two different ways as you have spent so long on here writing mostly digS on other people work you could have written two films by now.How long your spent here telling other your thoughts your name suits shindig .I know people who go without a lot and put all they have in to there films and they had very little much to start with
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Post by Tom on Jul 13, 2008 10:44:17 GMT
My history in film is well-told, but man, go with Plan B! Trust me, it's cos of that "I've got sod-all help or money" that I have Nina Nobody & Seven Buffalo on the hop. People will invest in those that take risks.
Thing is, even if Abbeyhill or Jake/Paul's movies don't work, they're at least over that first hurdle. I'm not saying it makes them better filmmakers, but I'm sure it'll make them much better writers.
I made a bad feature back in '04/'05. I'd never made a short before, but I went all out to make my film. Don't get me wrong, I learnt a lot, and of course got shot down for it. But within a year, Icharus was completed. The whole film. And now I'm negotiating a budget and producer for Nina, with Seven Buffalo set-up for shortly after, in the USA. The fact that Nina has been read by some seriously well-to-do people, (and I should be settling on an exec producer in the next few weeks) is all linked back to shooting that first bad film. It's all relative.
The 'get out and do it' approach has meant that I approached the cast for Nina (they both said yes on the strength of the screenplay), and that's led to their contacts wanting to take a look.
So if people do bad films, cool. We'll all be there more than once. But this is all about growth and development of talent, and I really think you're overdue getting something put down.
I won't hark on anymore, but as I've said before, I used to be homeless, switching between floors and benches. But all I ever focussed on was getting straight and making a film. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. But rather than focus on what everybody else was doing, I put that attention on myself. It's too easy to be distracted.
I will happily work with or for anyone who has the right kind of attitude - hence my small part in Salv's movie. And that's what I've seen from all the people attaching themselves to Nina. They don't care what my name is, just that I'm passionate about putting things together in the best way.
I would urge any filmmaker to put their talent where their mouth is. Not because their opinions don't count, (they do), but because ultimately, you have to screw up a few times just to succeed.
If you fall into the trap of writing, rewriting, re-rewriting, things can get stagnant. The best draft of your new screenplay is always the film you last made.
Let's see more movies, less hacking away at each other. Salv did it - stopped complaining and started shooting films. And you know what, as a returning filmmaker, his focus is stronger.
The only contacts that matter are the ones that come to you. Trust me.
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Post by salvador on Jul 13, 2008 12:45:33 GMT
Cheers Tom mate, much appreciated. I agree with everything you've said above.
Get out and do.... its the only way to learn, develop and become better.
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Post by Tom on Jul 13, 2008 13:21:42 GMT
Exactly. Look at just how many filmmakers who use this forum have actually pushed and encouraged each other to keep writing and shoot movies. I think that should be the underlying reason to throw comments and criticisms around, to actively push each other to be better filmmakers.
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Post by Dave on Jul 13, 2008 13:29:16 GMT
From my experience, going solo on writing work is the fastest route to success. Nobody gives anyone much money on a first film (if any), so be cautious of using anyone as a crutch. It could hinder you. The 'hilarious' comedy films I have made have all been written by me on my lonesome. I've never been lucky enough to meet someone that is really on my wave-length in terms of writing. I have tried co-writing a couple of times, but it just frustrates me too much because I rarely see eye to eye with the ideas of others! I think with comedy especially, writing alone is the best method. It's a clear style and vision that should come through, rather than something that is the resut of having to co-operate with someone else. ;D The films I have made are primarily about the writing aswell, so I really want it to be all me. Richard Herring likes my stuff (well... he's watched one of my tiddly films and "really liked it" and commended "the excellent use of language"). It makes me happier getting positive responses for something I wrote on my own.... equally, if I get legitimate criticism from people who don't like it, I don't have anyone else to blame which I think is character building too! ;D |
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Post by shindig on Jul 13, 2008 14:21:05 GMT
My writing partner's a fucking eejit. I'm making it the one and only time we'll work en masse.
It's a shame I can't figure out how to resolve shorts, really.
I'm all for encouragement. I just can't stand "GOOD JOB, MATE!" responses that I disagree with.
I'm tempted to hoy up my first botched draft of The Wall Department (spy thriller) solely as a benchmark of how dodgy I was when I started. It's off on a completely different tangent, now. Hell, anybody who fancies a read is welcome to it.
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