Racism and skinheads

[carolyn]

Hello all

I've only learnt about Shane in the last few months and have now got all four of his films on DVD and have almost been studying Dead Man's Shoes for his style. Anyway, This is England is all over the media at the moment and I've read about it twice in the Guardian over the last two weekends. It was interesting to read that skinheads often became scooter boys to distance themselves from racist groups and I'm glad that Shane made this point.

Carolyn

[oldhamlad]

Unfortunately Carolyn that is a myth, any Skins who ended up on Scooters did so because they could afford to do and they had matured from the streets, the racist skins remained racist and as a veteran of many scooter rallies and weekends in the 80's I can assure you that rasicm was rife, even though the main music was Soul and Motown, you saw very few black scooter boys, and you saw very few black lads or girls at Northern Soul events either.
I speak as a Northerner, when I worked and lived down London in the late 80's there was a much bigger mix of cultures.

[jill]

I don't really know much about the 1980s skin/mod/northern scene...was too busy bringing up kids, but I do know a bit about the 70s skin/suadehead (natural progression of the Mods)/northern scene.....

In the 70s (I know-back in the day-yawn) the Skins were socially/culturally-like the Mods-a rag bag of black/white working class youth, drawn together by a love of black music (Trojan in the case of skins). Seems to me that the NF did make a concerted effort to hi-jack that culture in the 1980s; exploiting the divisive, nasty politics of the Thatcher era. Shane absolutely nails that in TIE.

You're right Oldhamlad that there was/is a lot of racism in working class culture (and, indeed, 'British' culture) and it would be negligent in the extreme to deny that..but there are at least two stories to tell about that era and TIE tells two stories.. that's why it's bloody brilliant.

As for scooter boys and such like..this is unknown territory for me..but TIE got me interested and thanks to that I discovered SHARP. Interestingly, I see their website now has a link to TIE on (posted by a 'scooterskin').

sharpskins.co.uk/

Anyway, Oldhamboy I admit I'm pretty ignorant, re the specifics of the 1980s, but it seems to me that the politics of this division were/are pretty significant and not just about who can/could afford a Vespa .

No offence. This is an interesting discussion...but the issue clearly isn't as black and white (if you'll excuse the pun) as you suggest.

[carolyn]

Jill and Oldham Boy *Dead Man's Shoes *SPOILER* coming up*

Thank you both for the comments. Yes, it is an interesting subject. What I like about Shane Meadows' films is that they make you question yourself (well me anyway). Although, I am only really referring to Dead Man's Shoes and This is England. Would I be swept up in group mentality or would I have the strength of character needed to stop it? Would I come after somebody who had hurt a member of my family? Would I walk away from Combo or go along with him? Would I have had the perm that Shaun's mother had? All deep, social issues, I'm sure you'll agree.

Carolyn x

[jill]

Carolyn,

Yes Shane's films do engage the audience on an emotional level.

Carolyn, your message re DMS contains an absolutely massive spoiler for the new folks joining the site that haven't seen it yet-maybe you should edit that bit?

Cheers, Jill

[carolyn]

Thanks Jill, didn't think. Have changed it.

Carolyn

[robbie]

In the 80's the Scooter scene was a mixture of styles from Skinhead both sides, Rockabilly , punk general scooter riders and mods.. There were lots of problems in Great Yarmouth with racist skinheads trying to act the stage when Desmond Dekker was playing to full scale riots at the IOW on the Sunday night when the business played.
This resulted in the Mods going of for there own rallies which were also attended by alot of Sharp Skins , this resulted in the reduction of number at national rallies which are just picking up now...

[carolyn]

Wanted to mention how this film helps us to see how bad it could be if we were to be brainwashed. I'm a bit concerned about the way things are going at the moment. I live on the outskirts of Birmingham and not far from Smethwick. I went to a swimming pool and looked at what seats are held by counsellors in the surrounding areas. In some of the "poorer" areas like, Tipton, for instance there were two of even three BNP counsellors. This concerns me greatly and they seem to be picking up more members each time there is an election. Somebody said to me that when the main parties become too similar (i.e. Labour and Conversative are hardly different) the public looks for an alternative and in this case it could be extremists. I know that there is a lot of anti BNP campaigning and meetings at the moment and I receive mailshots from the TUC who have it high on their agenda. It still concerns me though, expecially when I read that the BNP said that "one sustained economic downturn in this country and we've got power". It looks like the economy could crash with the personal debt etc in the country and now the interest rate increases. I just hope that we don't turn into a bunch of rednecks looking for somebody to blame.

Rant over.

Carolyn x

[billywizz]

I think it's a valid point that years ago racists were much more visible and easily identified (ie right wing skinhaeds and the like), whereas in the ultra-PC world we live in now people are less likely to be openly racist.....

I think the BNP are a lot more savvy about their methods nowadays, which probably makes them even more dangerous.....

[jill]

billywizz said:

I think it's a valid point that years ago racists were much more visible and easily identified (ie right wing skinhaeds and the like), whereas in the ultra-PC world we live in now people are less likely to be openly racist.....

I think the BNP are a lot more savvy about their methods nowadays, which probably makes them even more dangerous.....

I used to think our voting system was so unrepresentative and undemocratic it was almost criminal.......but at least it has the virtue of keeping those Nazis down if not entirely out.

[danthekant]

I think a lot of un educated people believe that all skinheads are racist, just because people dress a certain way or follow a certain sub culture doesnt mean they are all the same in their beliefs and opinions. you cant just generalise or judge people.

I hate racism, and playing in a punk band we bring in the local punks and skinheads. Their is a certain group in grimsby who are racist and have swastika (excuse spelling?) tattoo's.

I wear dc martins, jeans, have a shaved head, and listen to punk music, and in todays culture, a lot of young people / teenagers have instantly turned around and said to me "you look like a nazi" / " i bet your racist", which is offensive to me.

Bar the skinhead topic, racism still exists in every day life, i work with a lot of indian, chinese people in sheffield, and it suprised me when i first started working with them, how many customers come in and make racist jokes or comments.
Just last week a black guy gave me a lot of abbuse and threatened me saying he hates white people.

i think more needs to be done to educate people, especially young people, films like this address the issue, which cant be praised enough, i wish more films hit the cinema that address real life issues rather than just fictional hollywood produced crap.