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Post by RydCook on Jan 18, 2011 21:56:18 GMT
Written & Edited by this very forum's creator Dave Clark!
Concept by me, directed my me and my brother Josh.
Shot at the start of last year, the film has has had 3 screenings thus far, and is now online for all to see!
Noki is a Sci-fi Rom-com in which our protagonist, Barry receives a fantastic gift from his girlfriend Barbs; a new Laptop. Barry is absolutely over the moon with his new gift, this is where our story begins...
All feedback appreciated! ;D
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Post by Dave on Jan 18, 2011 23:52:03 GMT
It was good rewatching it after not seeing for a while. At one point I was so familiar with all of the shots in editing, I didn't know if any of it even made sense any more! haha The first scene to second scene suddenly seems more amusing to me now than I had ever noticed before. Weird. Still loving that end credit music! Feedback would be good for all areas of the film. It was an interesting test for me to see if I could write someone else's idea. The editing is just something I really like doing, so hope it works to some extent. Believe you me, this film has been honed to the most lean state possible.... it was longer... and we have dropped a few scenes entirely. Deleted scenes for the DVD!
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Post by Gareth on Jan 19, 2011 1:25:23 GMT
I found it all very charming/ funny/ engaging etc. etc. up until about the halfway mark but from then I just dont think the idea of the film was fully realized and him and the laptops relationship fully developed.
I really wanted to like the film and really did up until the half way point and then it just completely lost me.
I just dont think you two ever had a solid understanding of what the beats of the story were you needed to hit and what story you were exactly telling. What were the audience supposed to feel at the end?
all the charming bits setting up the story worked really nicely but didn't develop from there as well
theres a 10 point plan for short films in the shooting people short film book, (I think you own it Ryd?)
Title: Noki Genre/Tone: Rom com with scifi element Setting: present day, domestic maincharacter: Barry (?) (maybe it would have worked better if the girlfriend was the main character?) want/need/obligation: opposition: catalyst for change: climax: resolution: and the audience feels... (theme):
it maybe seems a bit too academic but being able to fill out the 10 points on that plan really helps to clarify what the most important points are to the story your telling and if you can fill in the 10 points and communicate them to your audience it almost guarantees your film will be dramatically interesting, yes short films work that cant fill in those 10points but I think in the case of this film they would have really helped you two.
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Post by Dave on Jan 19, 2011 20:42:59 GMT
Hey Gareth, that is all fair comment from where I'm sitting! ;D I have no real knowledge of any writing rules at all really, and that definitely includes all you have mentioned about structuring stories and 'beats' within a story. The ending is quite ambiguous in the final film, but my original script had a different, more definite ending.... a bit of punchline really... but Ryd didn't like it! I'm happy with the way the ending plays out now, but I am definitely more of a fan of definitive endings than ambiguous ones to be honest.
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Post by RydCook on Jan 20, 2011 0:29:32 GMT
Hey Gareth,
Thanks for watching, being honest and giving constructive feedback!
What are audiences suppose to feel at the end? Gutted for Barbs I suppose. It's meant to come as a shock, I guess I wanted it to end like it could do in real life. Not all tied up like the majority of films. It's ambiguous in the way that you have no idea why Barry did that. But I think that's better. Is he mad? Possibly. If he is mad, then this could quite plausibly happen in real life. Some things are never explained. Barbs is left gutted at the end, not sure what to do. She almost goes after him, but decides it's too late. Having stuff all tied up and explained at the end is a little boring I think. Not in every case of course. Dave's original ending was good, but it was a twist, and a a twist on an over-used twist at that. Clever.. but I don't like twists! I prefer the ending how it is.
You're right, I never took the 10 point plan into consideration. I don't have that book, I do remember you recommending it to me quite a while ago! I guess I never bought it, I'm a cheapskate! Really should though.
I think the main issue that you bring up, and that I think you're right about, is that the film switches protagonist half way through. Barbs has the want (a proper relationship), Barbs has the opposition (the computer), Barbs IS the catalyst for change, the climax is all Barry's I suppose, and the resolution.. well, there is no resolution, but that's how I like it, and intended it. I think it certainly may have been a better film if we'd have had Barbs as the protagonist instead. I like the switching protagonists thing... think Psycho, but it doesn't necessarily work for this film.
Bare in mind, what we haven't mentioned yet, is that Dave did not have long to write the film at all. I wanted to get the film done ASAP for a competition (which I missed the deadline for in the end :/ ha ha), but yes, the film's script is only a second draft I think, is that right Dave? Then a third draft came in the shoot obviously, but nothing major changed other than the end.
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Post by jill on Jan 21, 2011 11:28:46 GMT
I agree with some of Gareth's points. I liked it, and you had my interest, for a good while (so scores on the initial hook). The concept was a good one-certainly an experience that a lot of people can relate to (men and women, although I suspect mainly women-ha, ha ). It was well played-I especially liked the man-child bloke and his very slightly deranged smile I also liked the warrenty to mark the passage of time. Was there an intentional double meaning there? The computer and relationship? That's how I read it, anyway-thought it was clever. Ultimately though, I was waiting for a twist or punchline that didn't materialise. I see what you're saying Ryd-I like ambiguous and/or low key endings too-but I think that its very difficult to pull it off in this genre because people are so invested in the rules. Just my opinion, but I think you had to choose between punchline, or a heavier dollop of poignancy at the end-maybe a second unopened present that Barbs unwraps at the end-a book on becoming a dad or something. Revenge would have been good too It is good to see these creative collaborations on the forum-I love this section of the site.
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Post by shindig on Jan 21, 2011 14:51:36 GMT
Yeah, the relationship wasn't well established but it was pleasant enough.
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Post by RydCook on Jan 21, 2011 18:43:59 GMT
I agree with some of Gareth's points. I liked it, and you had my interest, for a good while (so scores on the initial hook). The concept was a good one-certainly an experience that a lot of people can relate to (men and women, although I suspect mainly women-ha, ha ). It was well played-I especially liked the man-child bloke and his very slightly deranged smile I also liked the warrenty to mark the passage of time. Was there an intentional double meaning there? The computer and relationship? That's how I read it, anyway-thought it was clever. Ultimately though, I was waiting for a twist or punchline that didn't materialise. I see what you're saying Ryd-I like ambiguous and/or low key endings too-but I think that its very difficult to pull it off in this genre because people are so invested in the rules. Just my opinion, but I think you had to choose between punchline, or a heavier dollop of poignancy at the end-maybe a second unopened present that Barbs unwraps at the end-a book on becoming a dad or something. Revenge would have been good too It is good to see these creative collaborations on the forum-I love this section of the site. Thanks for watching and giving feedback Jill "maybe a second unopened present that Barbs unwraps at the end-a book on becoming a dad or something." Love that idea! Yes, I think the ending certainly needed a dollop more poignancy. It seems it is not quite effective enough as it is. Glad you liked the titles. Dave's fantastic idea in the edit!
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Post by RydCook on Jan 21, 2011 18:45:26 GMT
Yeah, the relationship wasn't well established but it was pleasant enough. Thanks for watching shindig. Do you mean the relationship with Baz and Barbs? Or the relationship between him and the computer?
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Post by Dave on Jan 21, 2011 20:41:27 GMT
Just my opinion, but I think you had to choose between punchline, or a heavier dollop of poignancy at the end-maybe a second unopened present that Barbs unwraps at the end-a book on becoming a dad or something. Revenge would have been good too I just want to give the punters what they want! haha I can't recall the writing period for the film, but now you mention it Ryd, I do recall you wanting it done quite quickly for a deadline. My general feeling about endings is that a definitive ending can be hard to come up with, so it can feel more rewarding for the viewer if it works. An ambiguous ending is always an easier option and unless a film has really earned it, I think audiences are very likely going to feel cheated or just indifferent. So, it's just my own personal feeling on the matter that definite endings are better than ambiguous endings (aka.. no ending ). Even if an ending is obvious or a bit crap, I still think it sits better with most audiences than a non-ending.
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Post by Gareth on Jan 21, 2011 21:21:05 GMT
the blessing you've got with this film is theres a lot or room to play with to make a better ending in post, I think a reworking of the scene between him and the laptop at the end could solve it,
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Post by RydCook on Jan 22, 2011 0:57:40 GMT
the blessing you've got with this film is theres a lot or room to play with to make a better ending in post, I think a reworking of the scene between him and the laptop at the end could solve it, Nope. Not happening. ;D Interested to hear your suggestion though?
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Post by Gareth on Jan 22, 2011 2:33:51 GMT
not sure really, I'd have to give it a hell of a lot of thought to come up with a decent suggestion but I think just by being really clever in the way you changed the robots voice over you could get a stronger ending.
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Post by Dave on Jan 22, 2011 12:16:19 GMT
I would like to post my original script for this short to see what people make of it.
The final film has a lot of different dialogue because the script was used as a jumping off point for improvising. It would be good to see if what I had originally written feels like it works as dialogue or not. Also, you'll get to read the ending I originally came up with along with a couple of dropped scenes (both of which were filmed).
Hands up who would give it a read! haha (I'm at work at the moment so can't upload it yet).
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Post by jill on Jan 22, 2011 13:24:17 GMT
I'm not sure what value my opinion would have, but as with all feedback, you can take it or leave it. I'd be interested to read it.
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