VIDEO GRADE AND SOUNDMIX UNDERWAY.

[Dazza]

Fooooook that is one big wait May 2007. I'm sure its worth is though but just seems yonks away.

Sorry Mark but I disagree I quite like Nick Love films thought football factory was good but the business was better mate. I did used to think Lock Stock was good but watched it the other day and changed my opinion a bit and dont rate it as much as I thought all though Frank harper Romeos dad in ARFRB is good in it a real nasty piece of work and convincing.

[mydeadpuppydog]

DANNY DYER WOULD DEFINATLY WEAR ONE OH YES PLEASE X

[marksherbert]

I just think Football Factory was a huge waste of 2 hours. There was no solution at the end, he said nothing about hooliganism (I felt a total lack of any clear message). I haven't seen The Business but I don't feel compelled to because it looks to me like a film about absolutely nothing.

Lock, Stock was all good fun but I like a filmmaker that has something to say, and he has fuck all to say. I totally respect your opinion though.

[DeLarge]

Fuck no. That is a long time. A screening for the board members sounds interesting though.
Still it's bound to be worth the wait.
As for Guy Ritchie and Nick Love. Toss. but the fact they can make films shows anyone can.
Shane is up there with the Loaches, Leighs and Clarkes and miles above them two.
I thought the Football Factory and Business were awful.
Seems people throw money at him, although his latest offering was pleading for finance so maybe he's come unstuck.
And as for Danny Dyer as a leading role actor. He's not even background material.

[shanemeadows]

I thought what Nick acheived on the football factory for the £400k was pretty remarkable in terms of scale. Gang fights, tons of locations and character etc takes it's toll on the budget and time. So on that front, they really did get amazing value for money.

On an emotional level, I think the film had the chance to be a bit more responsible with it's ending and show someone choosing to step away from the violence rather than saying fuck it and jumping back in with both feet, would have made a big difference to how the film was perceived.

[Davros]

marksherbert said:

There was no solution at the end, he said nothing about hooliganism (I felt a total lack of any clear message). I haven't seen The Business but I don't feel compelled to because it looks to me like a film about absolutely nothing.

Completely disagree, IMO The Football Factory was excellent, I can see how it would come across to some people. Although if you have a passion for football, and a knowledge of the violence that has plagued the game for years this makes sense, the message as with every form of media can be interpreted differently by different people, an actual football hooligan watching this will see it completely differently. I don't think he made the film with the Oscar/BAFTA judging panel in mind. The business, again very good, attention to detail was immense.

As Shane mentioned, to make these on such mediocre budgets is commendable. Neither compare to DMS etc but then again can you compare them.

[marksherbert]

deaddogsdontdance said:

marksherbert said:

There was no solution at the end, he said nothing about hooliganism (I felt a total lack of any clear message). I haven't seen The Business but I don't feel compelled to because it looks to me like a film about absolutely nothing.

Completely disagree, IMO The Football Factory was excellent, I can see how it would come across to some people. Although if you have a passion for football, and a knowledge of the violence that has plagued the game for years this makes sense, the message as with every form of media can be interpreted differently by different people, an actual football hooligan watching this will see it completely differently. I don't think he made the film with the Oscar/BAFTA judging panel in mind. The business, again very good, attention to detail was immense.

As Shane mentioned, to make these on such mediocre budgets is commendable. Neither compare to DMS etc but then again can you compare them.

Opinions and arseholes. I myself am a fan of football and a pacifist yet I saw no hint of the characters regretting or changing their ways.

[RydCook]

I havn't seen Footballl Factory or The Business, nor do i want to, they're not my kinda films.

Anway MWAY 2007??? *cries*

na i can wait. Any film from shane is worth waiting for.

[Kezz]

Ha Ha.. this one is definatly worth the wait.. Iv now seen bits of the film last week whilst we all got together to do some recording of bits which can't be heard too clearly.. And even though we were only lucky enough to see a few crucial bits at this stage (the cast and crew screening isnt too far away though) I just have two words .. 'FUCKING' & 'AMAZING'..

I Obviously Can't reveal much.. but be ready for one hell of a performance from Ste Graham.

[Davros]

marksherbert said:

deaddogsdontdance said:

Completely disagree, IMO The Football Factory was excellent, I can see how it would come across to some people. Although if you have a passion for football, and a knowledge of the violence that has plagued the game for years this makes sense, the message as with every form of media can be interpreted differently by different people, an actual football hooligan watching this will see it completely differently. I don't think he made the film with the Oscar/BAFTA judging panel in mind. The business, again very good, attention to detail was immense.

As Shane mentioned, to make these on such mediocre budgets is commendable. Neither compare to DMS etc but then again can you compare them.

Opinions and arseholes. I myself am a fan of football and a pacifist yet I saw no hint of the characters regretting or changing their ways.

Well maybe that was the point, I doubt Love completely condones (?!) violence, but he's a realist. I think its more of a realistic portrayal of that type of football fan, the non pacifist, the guy works 9-5 Monday to Friday, his only release is the weekends where he goes out and smashes some girls 'box' in and then has a scrap, with other like minded people that also want a scrap. It happens every weekend all over the country.

Then the two old men that feature throughout, the conversation they have with the taxi driver, he's being racist moaning about, if i remember correctly 'the blacks', and then commends them as war heroes. Whereas they were fighting the war to get rid of blokes like him. They spent their youth trying to change the way we and they live, by fighting, and the outcome remained the same, institutionalised racism. We've all heard someone say, Im not racist, but............. So to an (extreme) extent they both fought for nothing. One of the old guys then dies alone, which most of the characters are heading towards.

You did see the guy that changed his ways and opened a flower stall, settled down with the missus and the sort, trying to convince Tommy (Dyer) to change his ways? Then there is Zebedee who is the newer even dumber breed, and then older guy (2nd in command of the firm) who's lived through it for years, and cant sit in the pub with his wife without kicking off, let alone take her for a meal. It doesnt preach or condone, or presume the viewer cant see the difference/similarities between the characters.

It then ends leaving Tommy making a decision, and with the state of his life and the society he lives in he chooses to remain exactly the same. Id credit viewers with some intelligence and say not all would say, fuck it, he's amazing, i want to be like him! I agree the ending maybe should have left it open to debate as to whether he went back or didn't, but where would be the controversy in that, we wouldn't be typing about it otherwise? Rant over!

Opinions and arseholes?

[PatrickCoyle]

shanemeadows said:

On an emotional level, I think the film had the chance to be a bit more responsible with it's ending and show someone choosing to step away from the violence rather than saying fuck it and jumping back in with both feet, would have made a big difference to how the film was perceived.

That in itself would be irresponsible though, because it would be tacked-on for the sake of a "message" and put people off. I read an interview with the director of Human Traffic that said it was a bastard to get financed, but would've been so much easier if one of the characters (is it the main girl's younger brother, the one that's doing E for the first time?) died from the drugs. But he wouldn't make that change, because it wouldn't be true to his experiences or to the audience that would really "get" the film.

I think The Football Factory is a similar thing. Nick Love has carved out a certain niche for himself by keeping true to the subjects. His target audience, which I think is the kind of people who read Loaded and work in offices or factories and wish they were hooligans and gangsters, love the kind of films he makes. I have a friend who don't really exist beyond drinking, working and going to the gym, and The Football Factory is one of his favourite films. It doesn't have too much emotional content that would be taboo to talk about in the pub, for one thing.

I don't think the film had a responsibility to say "Walk away from it while you still can" anyway (and the ending had the little scumbag fella getting shot for his indiscretions anyway)... I don't know how many people it really encouraged into the old hooliganism, but I bet not many. It's having the balls and reckless stupidity that drives someone into the football violence, I don't think a film can do it. For example, after watching the second "Lord of the Rings", me and my mates codenamed ourselves after the characters (I was Gimli, on account of being a fat midget with a beard) and arranged to go and batter a load of Orcs. And it never happened in the end.

Anyway, I really liked "Goodbye Charlie Bright" but "TFF" didn't do much for me and "The Business" was a waste of time entirely. Danny Dyer's fine as a leading man if you can stand him, but I find him to be an annoying bastard at this point. He always plays Danny Dyer. Mind you, Frank Harper always plays himself (or the fictional "himself" that I've built up in my head based on his role in everything I've seen him in) as well.

[Davros]

patrickcoyle said:

me and my mates codenamed ourselves after the characters (I was Gimli, on account of being a fat midget with a beard) and arranged to go and batter a load of Orcs. And it never happened in the end.

Brilliant.

I agree. Saying that, I really like it but wouldn't be your stereotypical Loaded reader, I read Esquire

[marksherbert]

deaddogsdontdance said:

marksherbert said:

Opinions and arseholes. I myself am a fan of football and a pacifist yet I saw no hint of the characters regretting or changing their ways.

Opinions and arseholes?

Opinions are like arseholes: everybody has one.

[Davros]

marksherbert said:

deaddogsdontdance said:

Opinions and arseholes?

Opinions are like arseholes: everybody has one.

I see. Damn Straight

[Dave]

deaddogsdontdance said:

Well maybe that was the point, I doubt Love completely condones (?!) violence, but he's a realist.

Previously on the forum