Is TIE Shane's best?

[jill]

Is this thread premature?!

TIE doesn't yet feature in the 'best yet' poll thread, but my guess is that most people on site have seen it now??

Not sure I have an answer to my own question (d'oh).

Definitely think that TIE is going to be Shane's 'biggest' (as in expose/box office takings) film. I'd say for five reasons (all related): 1) the way that it taps into angst/ambivalence about British (or more properly English) identity; 2) the 1980s nostalgia appeal;3) It's resonance with youth culture (despite the 18); 4) it's contemporary relevance (picking up on the Culture Show observation-TIE not This Was England-and Shane's remarks about Iraq); 5) it's Shane's most overtly political film and will attract a new/different audience for that reason alone.

Much as I love the film, I'm not sure-bit like trying to chose your favourite child I suppose-but I still find I'm deeply moved and troubled by DMS. Kermode was wrong to describe DMS as a 'revenge thriller' in so far as, well yes it is, but IMHO, it's much more than that................

Anyhoo, what do you think?

[Dave]

jill said:

Is this thread premature?!

Yes.

jill said:

Kermode was wrong to describe DMS as a 'revenge thriller' in so far as, well yes it is, but IMHO, it's much more than that................

That's not quite right... The Kermode says that Shane re-invented the revenge thriller genre.... which is a good point.

I'm waiting to watch This Is England again at the flicks before making my own personal decision on whether I think it's Shane's best so far. The first time I watched it in London, I couldn't concentrate properly until I had made my on screen appearance as "Farm hand walking". haha.

[jtrodreigez]

could be subject to a nasty typo there dave.

[Dave]

jtrodreigez said:

could be subject to a nasty typo there dave.

Oh yeah! No wonder the film got an 18 cert.

[jill]

OK, time to bump this thread me thinks.....

[anonlytwin]

i'm willing to give the premature question a premature yes

[jtrodreigez]

i think it would all come down to personal preference as i think TIE is technically a better film but for personal reasons DMS is my favorite.

[anonlytwin]

and yep dms is far far far more than that

[RydCook]

TIE, AT THE MOMENT as you say, all comes down to personal preference. I'd have to watch them all again then decide.

[Bill Edwards]

jtrodreigez said:

i think it would all come down to personal preference as i think TIE is technically a better film but for personal reasons DMS is my favorite.

I'll second that.

As has been said TIE is Shane's most mature and assured work yet, and it completely confounded my expectations. I was expecting a kind of DMS with skins.

DMS is my fave with TIE bubbling under.

[large michael]

chromebaby said:

jtrodreigez said:

i think it would all come down to personal preference as i think TIE is technically a better film but for personal reasons DMS is my favorite.

I'll second that.

As has been said TIE is Shane's most mature and assured work yet, and it completely confounded my expectations. I was expecting a kind of DMS with skins.

DMS is my fave with TIE bubbling under.

ditto.but where for art thou romeo?

[Dave]

largemichael said:

chromebaby said:

I'll second that.

As has been said TIE is Shane's most mature and assured work yet, and it completely confounded my expectations. I was expecting a kind of DMS with skins.

DMS is my fave with TIE bubbling under.

ditto.but where for art thou romeo?

Romeo Brass is still my personal favourite! (Mr Behindthetimes)

[jtrodreigez]

I know what you mean large and romeo for me still has the best ending, its just so bloody terrifying. Maybe after a few home viewings TIE will swop spots. Thing is id say 24/7 is maybe the film with the most heart. What does all that say though when you cant pick an outright best film from your fav director.

[Bill Edwards]

There's not much between any of Shane's films for me. It's all down where they sit in my heart.

DMS and TIE occupy that 'special' place and ARFRB, 24/7 and Small Time are snuggled up to it.

OUATITM is a very good, funny film but most of us know the story and like many, it doesn't feel like a Shane Meadows' movie to me. Will patiently await the director's cut.

[jill]

SPOILERS!!!!!

Apologies for the length/indulgence.......

I’m still trying to answer my own question…….but it’s been good because it’s made me think about all Shane’s films again and why I love them.

Going to exclude Small Time because it’s so long now since I’ve seen it, I can’t remember the details. I only remember that it was really funny-and had real heart. The funniest thing/person was Jumbo-never thought it would be possible for me to find a wife-beating waster remotely amusing, but there you are (any more news about the DVD release?).

I wasn’t mad keen on OUTM, although there were some things I really liked about the film. For example Cathy Burke’s Carol (how amazing that woman is-Burke, I mean, but Carol’s pretty no-nonsense gold too) and Finn Atkins. And the bit when Dek and Jimmy have the show down in the garage-shot like a wild west shoot out; splendid.

For me, Romeo Brass is great because of the marvellous way that it captures childhood friendships-the fickleness as well as well as the closeness of the bond (even if you lose touch with your best school friend, you never forget them) and the humour-I think Romeo Brass has my favourite ending; which is so simple, but really endearing. I also liked the exchange between Ladine and her dad where she gives him money and he’s humiliated-heart breaking. But the best thing for me was the ‘ice cream’ scene at the sea-side where the whole tone of the film turned in an instant-stunning.

In DMS, I suppose ultimately it’s the ‘twist’ that really left a lasting impression on me. My daughter (who loved it btw) said she saw it coming, but I didn’t-and that revelatory scene made me cry. The performances were all great, but I especially liked Toby Kebbell. I haven’t seen anything he’s done since (apart from Northern Soul) and I gather his other films haven’t been impressive, but whatever, that man has talent. IMO, DMS is great though because it makes you think. Don’t want to get too deep, but since others on site have been going on about Camus (in a poncey way ;D ), I especially mean the moral dilemma -knowing that Richard’s actions can never be ‘right’, but they are nonetheless understandable and the end that Richard chooses for himself-death is a sort of penance?

TIE is great for all sorts of reasons-not least of which are the attention to detail in the 80s reconstruction and Stephen Graham’s Combo. But personally I liked it because it is Shane’s most overtly political film and I’m a bit of a politico. Telling a very personal story against the back-drop of the politics of the time and integrating the two things so seamlessly was, for me, the mark of a truly great film.

But-finally and somewhat controversially perhaps-I’m going to plump for 24/7 (though there’s a good chance I’ll change my mind tomorrow ). Partly, this is just a personal thing. It was the first Meadow’s film I ever saw (at the Broadway in Nott’m when it was released). The only thing that motivated me to go was the parochial factor-it was set in Nottingham. But I really loved it. Wont go on and on-especially since this is already a very long post-so just three quick points.

Not many people would describe 24/7 as a political film. I think it is, but it’s more about politics in the personal. First, because it makes a comment simply in reproducing the ‘no hope’ nature of their lives. Second in the way it develops the storyline of the two black guys relationship (apologies can’t remember the characters names just now) and does it in such a natural, understated way. Third, I like the way Shane does gender (generally-not just 24/7)- masculinities, but also women. OUTM apart Shane’s films are male centred, but the women are always well rounded and usually strong characters. Here, I’m thinking partly of Sharon, but also Woody’s mum-who is strong in the end.

Second reason, Darcy; a lonely man trying to be relevant (‘I was a forgotten man in the 80s’) and ending up a broken man-heart-breaking.

Third, and the clincher for me, the film is just so damn poetic. I’m thinking especially about Darcy’s journal log in Wales; the slowed down boxing club scene; the clip of Darcy as a kid dancing-just comes out of nowhere-but it expresses real joy. Third, the ‘handprint’ shot and, finally, just some of the dialogue: ‘Dancing with my Auntie Iris gives me the quilt to hide my loneliness.’