The Palace and the Punks

[jill]

It might be a cafe now-I haven't been in Eastwood for years. I have some friends in Brinsley though and I visit them fairly regularly, so not completely cut off from the old coalfields communities. The best thing about my cousin's house was they had a swing ;D Very posh, I thought.

I think about glam rock a bit differently because for me the real dire stuff was all that hideous prog rock and Mike bloody Tubular Oldfield in the early 70s. Was pretty young, but my older brothers listened to it. Urgh. And then came....BOWIE!!! Also, Souxsie and the Banshees made a point of noting Roxy Music as an influence (and Disco Tex-say no more about that). I loved a lot of that glam stuff when I was a kid and Slade, of course For me, Punk saved the world from disco. I'll make an exception for Candi Staton though-she was good.

Haven't watched ToTP2 for ages.

Anyway, back to work now, or I'll never get time to read on.....

PS. Is the lone drummer in the photo Ginger Baker? Looks a bit like him and the supergroup ref made me think so.

[arclight]

Hey Jill
On Newstead and Annesley pits, did you know there is a music festival there now and Echo and the Bunnymen are headlining this year

[jill]

Jul 16, 2011 14:35:32 GMT arclight said:

Hey Jill
On Newstead and Annesley pits, did you know there is a music festival there now and Echo and the Bunnymen are headlining this year

Wow Or should that be you're kidding me! I love Echo and the Bunnymen. Will definetly look out for it. I went for a bit of a urban tourist scout around Newstead a few times-incredible vibe-ghostly and pretty sad too.

I still haven't finished the book. Been a bit busy, but read some more last night. Just a bit of random stuff inspired by your words........

Liked the Edwin Starr stuff. SOS is class, along with Happy Radio-although both a bit of 'pop' or pop/disco cross-over that N/S purists hate, of course. Brings back some nice memories for me though.

My Edwin Starr story. About 4/5 years back, I was selling my house in Birmingham. This black American guy turns up to look around. Just so happen's I was playing Edwinn Starr's version of My Sweet Lord ( bit of a Oh Happy Day thing going on too) at the time (off a naff Motown does the Beatles CD-I like it though and that Edwin Starr track is great I think). This guy says, Edwin Starr's a friend of mine and it just so happens he's playing in a piano bar on Broad Street tonight. Why don't you come down? I think 'this is bullshit.' Turns out Edwin Starr is playing, I do go, he is this guy's mate etc. Nice night. He died not long afterwards, so probably one of his last performances as it turns out. The bizarre thing, is Edwin Starr was living in the m/c suburb of Bramcote (Nottingham) at the time! How weird is that?

Liked The Sweet stuff. Got to disagree with the recounter though on them being 'androgynous.' My take on the 'gender benders' of glam: Mark Bolan (feminine); Bowie (androgynous); Sweet (hod carriers in green glitter eye shadow) ;D I'm a bit sceptical of Steve Priest's story about them being heavy metal/rockers who cashed in on glam.....I seem to recall Coco and Little Willie being their first hits. I liked those tracks though-I was at primary school then ;D

What happened to Brian Connelly was sad. I quite fancied him when I was 8. I think I might have mentioned this already, but he was the real ife brother of 'there's been another mudder' Tagett. Odd bit of pop trivia, Caroline Sullivan-one of the best rock/pop journo's around in the 70s (Guardian/NME) wrote an absolutely fanastic book about her adolescent obsession with the BCRs. Brave woman ;D

How did you get interviews with all these people? Must have been great fun talking to them.

Anyway, I am now well into the real stuff of the book-punk! I'll let you know what I think shortly.......what would you have done with them letters/rocks if you had managed to save 'em? Nice story-I've tried to save lots of inaminate, lost causes when pissed meself-empathise

We should list our punk top tens. Or maybe I'll start a new thread when I am through reading.

[arclight]

Great Edwin Starr story.

Love your description of Sweet as glammed up hod carriers - I reckon they’d probably agree ;D

There are music festivals all over the place now, Headstock at Newstead/Annesley and Indietracks – a bizarre fusion of steam train heritage and indie music – is within walking distance of here (went last year, Primitives headlined, remember them? – ‘Stop Killing Me,’ reckon ‘Through the Flowers’ was their best). I’ll have to put on a Grey Topper, Jacksdale festival on t'rec out back here, could call it JacksOff Fest ;D

Wish I’d have made more effort to get those picture palace letters ‘ACE’ would have been great on the back garden

I’m mulling over my punk top 10

[arclight]

This list is very predictable, but old school classics for me.
1. Anarchy In The Uk – Sex Pistols
2. God Save The Queen – Sex Pistols
3. New Rose – The Damned
4. Teenage Kicks - Undertones
5. London Calling - Clash
6. Babylon’s Burning – The Ruts
7. Oh Bondage Up Yours – X Ray Spex
8. Alternative Ulster – Still Little Fingers
9. Ever Fallen In Love - Buzzcocks
10. No More Heroes – The Stranglers

[jill]

Good selection, thought got to say Wot, No Ramones ;D My personal favourite Ramones is their cover of Baby I Love You, which is an odd choice in some ways, but as I say a personal one. White Man in Hammersmith Palais would probably figure in my ten somewhere. Love the Undertones and your choice is class, though I'd go for Wednesday Week-think that'd make my top ten as well.

I'd have to think about this-and the parametres of what counts as 'punk'- before making my choices. Would it just be 76ish-79ish? If not, the Pogues would figure in my selection, I think. Stretch it even further and I've have a Raincoats song too. And there's Patti Smith to consider too....

Haven't had time to read the rest of your book-hopefully, I'll finish it tonight

Got to come clean on the hod carriers-I heard that somewhere myself-might have been Julie Burchill-it is an excellent description of them though

Edit: O.K. Tough and I'll probably change my mind, but maybe these:

1. White Man in Hammersmith Palais-Clash
2. Wednesday Week-Undertones
3. Baby I Love You-Ramones
4. Happy House-Souxsie and the Banshees
5. Another Girl, Another Planet-The Only Ones
6. Ever Fallen in Love-Buzzocks
7. Sally MacLennane-Pogues
8. Pretty Vacant-Sex Pistols
9. Pyscho Killer-Talking Heads
10. Gloria-Patti Smith

[arclight]

Can’t argue with that list too. Reckon my list would get more interesting after you go down out of the obvious choices for the Top 10 - Joy Division/Warsaw – Leaders Of Men, Skids – Into The Valley, The Members – Sound of the Suburbs, UK Subs – Warhead, Generation X – Day By Day, The Saints – Stranded, Theatre Of Hate – Legion, Ramones – Blitzkrieg Pop, Siouxsie and the Banshees – Playground Twist, Eddie and the Hot Rods – Do Anything You Wanna Do.
You could argue for taking punk back to MC5 – Kick Out The Jams and anything by The Stooges (love them!). And later stuff like Green Day – Basket Case, We’ve Got A Fuzzbox and We’re Gonna Use It – Rules and Regulations, Husker Du – Sorry Somehow, Nirvana – Smells Like Teen Spirit and even Lauren Laverne’s breakthrough with the brilliant little punk pop single when in Kenickie – Punka, Prodigy - Firestarter.

[jill]

Just finished reading your book arclight. Sad story at the end-same thing with my dad so I know how you must have felt. Really great that it all came right in the end though.

The club is a time capsule of the whole 70s decade and your book's captured it for posterity-fantastic. Real shame all these places are dying out, to be replaced by wine bars, chains, or even worse Coops. I was at Cornerhouse last week and saw that Foreman's place (at least I think it was that place-guessing so with the Foreman St connection).

Anyway, just put the book on my shelf next to my Q Book of Punk Legends Congratulatons again on getting it out there-really enjoyed the read.

On the what's punk theme-the same Q book even includes Velvet Underground-now that is stretching it, although I kind of see it in the ethos, if not sound. On that note, one of my favourite music books is Nico: Song they Never Play on the Radio about her lost years in Manchester in the 80s. John Cooper Clarke and Peter Perrett get a mention-think you can probably guess what they had in common with Nico Excellent book though, which as an author as well as music fan, you might enjoy.

Yeah, I like a good few 'post-punk' bands. Mentioned the Raincoats (who were around way back, but didn't have success until the 80s and then a brief revival in the 90s when the Indie thing took off), like Nirvana too. Never been able to love Green Day though-not sure why.

Nice that This is England got a mention!

Edit: One last thing that I forgot to mention-we used to ask coppers if they had the wrong time too. Laughed out loud when I read that ;D

[arclight]

Real happy you enjoyed the book Jill, feedback like yours makes it all worthwhile

Jul 18, 2011 19:56:00 GMT jill said:

The club is a time capsule of the whole 70s decade and your book's captured it for posterity-fantastic.

particularly like that

I’ll have to check out that Nico in Manchester book. Heard John Cooper Clarke on Mark Radcliffe and Stuart Maconies BBC 6 music show the other week and he came out with – ‘I’ve an idea for a sequel to Snakes On A Plane what about Parrot In A Car, imagine if it gets out of the cage when in the outside line, chaos.’ mad genius! ;D
I’d recommend the Dave Haslam (former Hacienda DJ) book Manchester, England, it traces the development of music and culture in the city from the industrial revolution and the gin palaces to MaDchester.
The best book on punk I’ve read is Jon Savage’s England’s Dreaming. John Lydon’s No Irish, No Blacks No Irish Men is great too.

[jill]

You're welcome.

I saw John Cooper Clarke last way back in the mid-90s at a pub in Not'm city centre. John Otway was on the same bill. Both really good. I'm surprised Clarke's still around

I was going to mention the Savage book to you, but thought you'd probably read it already. Agree, fantastic book. Will look out for Lydon's book. If you like stuff on pop culture generally, I'd definitely also recommend Bracewell's England is Mine. There's a copy on Amazon at the moment for 1p! Looks like it's out of print now and will probably be unobtainable soon. Odd little book, but kind of genius Not exclusively about punk, but a good little section, plus Oi and the early 80s ska revival.

Re: Hot Rods-saw them at the Sandpiper. One of my best night there though was Lew Lewis Reformer, who I think was in both Dr. Feelgood and Hot Rods at different times. Did you ever see them? According to this guy, they played the first ever punk festival:



Think it was about 79 when I saw them.

[arclight]

Jul 18, 2011 19:56:00 GMT jill said:

Nice that This is England got a mention!

Yep remember watching This Is England at the time I was putting the UK Subs gig together and Warhead coming on the soundtrack. Earlier that day I’d been customising Warhead posters that lead singer Charlie Harper (great guy!) had sent me.

Brilliant film, I left school in 82 a disillusioned post punk kid straight onto the dole in Thatcher’s Britain. Could identify with the series too. That bit when the gang turned up on ‘Fizz’ Yamaha motorbikes killed me. A lot of youths in Jacksdale had them back in 82 and I broke my wrist on one! It wasn’t mine, another lads, but talked him into letting me have a go on it. I did a wheelie through a hedge, my wrist was smashed and my face cut up. As I lay on the pavement waiting for the ambulance, a crowd gathered around me, then mam and dad turned up ‘I’ve got some more bad news for you,’ said dad.’
‘What’s that,’ I replied looking up at him, wiping blood from my eyes, in pain.’
‘United lost n’all.’
And people sniggering. ;D
This was right outside the burnt out shell of the Grey Topper, the Falklands War was on, the miners strike was brewing, it sums up the chaos of that time for me.

Great to see Vicky McClure won a Bafta for the series her performance was mesmerising. It all was!

Thanks for the book recommendations. The lead singer of B-Movie, Steve Hovington, has been in touch to say he’s written a story about growing up in Mansfield to forming the band, have to edit this with the title.
Do Anything You Wanna Do by the Hotrods became my anthem when trying to get the gig on. Being an early pub rock band - and me being so young in 77 - it sort of passed me by at the time, but love it now, the lyrics are as punk as anything.

'I'm gonna break out of the city
Leave the people here behind
Searching for adventure
It's the kind of life to find
Tired of doing day jobs
With no thanks for what I do
I know I must be someone
Now I'm gonna find out who'
Fantastic

[jill]

Jul 19, 2011 5:42:09 GMT arclight said:

Do Anything You Wanna Do by the Hotrods became my anthem when trying to get the gig on. Being an early pub rock band - and me being so young in 77 - it sort of passed me by at the time, but love it now, the lyrics are as punk as anything.

'I'm gonna break out of the city
Leave the people here behind
Searching for adventure
It's the kind of life to find
Tired of doing day jobs
With no thanks for what I do
I know I must be someone
Now I'm gonna find out who'
Fantastic

One of our forum members-who also happens to be related to one of the cast members, once posted a little love note to Eddie and the Hot Rods on the forum-maybe your post will bring him back ;D I liked them a lot.

Since we're the only people having a conversation on this thread at the moment, I'm going to be indulgent and post a bit of Johnny CC summing up the essence of punk for me ;D



Where are you Marmite? Post your top ten already !!!

[arclight]

‘Evidently Chicken Town!’ my favourite John Copper Clarke poem too, I couldn’t believe it when it came over the closing credits to the Sopranos as well!
‘I can’t do this on TV as the beep box operators sue for repetitive strain injury’ ;D love him.
Yep there must be some more old Notts punkas out there.

[cliftonestate]

Hi arclight i have brought your book but not got round to reading it yet I'm going on holiday next Thursday so I'll read it while I'm away.
Really looking forward to reliving the good old punk days.

Here are my Punk Top Ten Hits

1 Career Opportunities The Clash
2. Anarchy In The UK – Sex Pistols
3 Teenage Kicks - Undertones
4. Garageland - The Clash
5 Peaches - The Stranglers
6. Sound of the Suburbs - The Members
7. Eva Braun- Boomtown Rats
8. Suspect Device- SLF
9. Smash it up - The Damned
10 Jilted John - Jilted John

I had to put Jilted John in there because of all the punk lyrics with all there venom Jilted managed to be aggressive yet funny,it still makes me smile each time I hear it.
Loved Iggy and Lou Reed but not sure you'd class them as Punk.

Best Punk Gigs that I saw live

The Clash (Lots of times)

Richard Hell

The Upstarts (Rioting permitting)

SLF

Ian Drury and the Blockheads

Boomtown Rats

The Members

The Skids

Siouxsie and the Banshees

Sham 69 (Baby Punks but still good live)


Groups I saw live but didn't put on a decent show were

The Stranglers ( 3 times all average)
Generation X
The Stray Cats (Just after the Punk era)
UK Subs
The Damned
The Undertones (Opening night of Rock City)
Still hurts that I never got to see
The Sex Pistols I had tickets for there Sheffield and Derby Gigs but both were banned by the local councils.
Seems mad now to think that any group could be banned.
Even that fascist Band Screwdriver managed to play live yet poor old Johnny was not a liked man ha ha ha





arclight you might like Peter Hook's book (Joy Division)
The Hacienda.....How not to run a club

I think you'd really enjoy it .

[arclight]

Great list too cliftonestate
Yep got to love Jilted John ;D Love Graham Fellows later incarnation John Shuttleworth too,

;D
Wish i'd have seen The clash Joe Strummer gone too young.
Did you ever make the trek down to the Topper? If you could find Jacksdale that is?

Like Liverpool demolishing The Cavern how could Manchester pull down the Hacienda Should have been a museum of Manchester music at least.