This is England!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PatrickCoyle]

I find that people in subcultures are very oversensitive to how those subcultures are portrayed. You're never gonna be able to please all of the people all of the time... To be honest, you're never gonna be able to please everyone at ANY time. Shane's main concern has to be making the film HE wants to make, about his own experiences and for an audience. He can't just suit your own goals, Canuck. The way you predict the sky is falling because of this film... I can't honestly say as I've never had to deal with the fallout from a portrayal of people on film, but in fairness I don't immerse myself in "we all look the same" groups so I can't see myself in a situation like that... Unless there's a film that makes out that all fat people are evil or something. But you seem to have a very low estimation of an audience's ability to intelligently react to the film. And while I won't say you're wrong there, because I know how many idiots are out there, I will say that I just don't think people are that confrontational or brave anymore. Or that they care enough.

And what's the harm in trusting in Shane for now?

[Canuckskin]

Mark said:

But the best way to confront a problem is to bring it out into the open; people see a film about it and they can debate and hopefully overcome it. You might say that this particular problem has been confronted enough, but it obviously has'nt because the BNP still has strong support in a lot of places in the UK.

The BNP is hardly linked to Skinheads anymore, but
What, did you think it was going to magically go away?
That making movies about ignorant fools will solve the problem? Life has a habit of imitating art. Exposing people to these issues only prolongs their existance.
Anti Fascist groups always thought that teaching people about what the racist ideology was about would help them better understand what they were up against socially, until some of them began flirting with right wing extremism themselves. All they really managed to do was spread the literature of their enemy for them.
If you take the racism and the sexism out of media, it becomes trivial. The benchmark in which society can use to measure that particular attitude doesn't exist thus people move on to whatever else is available.
That's how unfortunately shallow and flaky human
Sociology can be. the style in every movie, record and video game, as long as it's visually accessible will be impersonated.
When Romper Stomper came out in theatres, the amount of White Power Skinheads in our town tripled.
Teenagers who were never exposed to Skinheads before used it as a template for their naturally rebellious angst. It was stupid. Same thing happened with American History X.
Right now i'm currently dealing with a teen who's been running around quoting shit from the movie like it was some kind of phenomenon, talking about "Curbstomping" people.
So Say what you will.
Affiliating Skinheads with racism in this movie is a mistake.
I know, because I come from where this always ends up.
When you release it, i'll prove it to you.

[jtrodreigez]

Where are you from? whatever you're view Shane and every other filmmaker has the right to make whatever film they want. Any censorship is wrong, grow up. Also the film is based in the 80's in a closed northern community where these people did exsist, and they still do. From what i know about the way this film is going i think Shane is basing things on what happenned to him, i.e. getting involved with older guys and getting drawn into the lifestyle of racist skins. I may be wrong here but i think Shane has said that it was the violence and fuck you attitude that drew him in and he used it to find a place to fit in, obviously as in his other films Shane will use this to offer us his unique outlook on what most would see as a touchy subject.

Also dont you think that telling people to do what to do or what to think is a bit Hitler.

Right my rant is over, im gonna go and watch res. dogs play GTA and go pop a cap in some niggas ass!!!

[PatrickCoyle]

Shane isn't responsible for idiots. If people copy things in films, it's their fault. Not the fault of the film or filmmakers. Anyone with half or more of a brain is aware of that.

[Canuckskin]

"A Bit Hitler"?
Easy for you to say - The movie isn't going to cause people to look at you like a stark raving racist, is it?
I never told anyone what to do, I simply explained the connatations that it will induce. And IT WILL.
I know those people existed and by all means - I'm sure Shane had to deal with it. My point is, if you could get your puckered lips away from Mr. Meadow's ass for a moment, that it's kind of something the Skinhead community would like to put behind them.
Look at Germany. You cannot legally own something with a swastika on it. Even in your own house.
Why - because it is something that needs to be left in the past.
I already told you, there was way more to the Skinhead movement in the early eighties than the NF, like Southall riots, and all that. You can have a movie with scary Skinhead jerks even without them being racist. Why do this shit to death?
My friends and I, our hopes for this flick were pretty crushed, not because we were hoping to meet our own selfish ends with it, but that it just might have been different.
With that, an a failure by the big man to comment --- I'll leave you to think about what good rehashing this is really going to do, other than give Mr. Meadows self gratification

[Dave]

Canuckskin said:

Easy for you to say - The movie isn't going to cause people to look at you like a stark raving racist, is it?

I really do not think that anyone who watches the finished film will be turned to such a way of thinking, because the film is set to show the opposite. If anything, I believe the skinheads will be shown as the victims... preyed upon by the NF, etc. The film's agenda is to show how the skinhead movement is completely unrelated to the right-wing extremism.
I don't think that the film can demonstrate this without showing what did actually happen in some areas as a historical backdrop. This is to show the viewer why the skinhead movement has become associated with right-wing extremism to the uninformed. To then demonstrate how wrong this view is, can only have full impact after showing how the skins were preyed upon in the first place.

After having said all that.. I can see exactly where you're coming from by saying that simply mentioning the NF and skinheads in the same film is a concern for you. But I am certain the film will show true skinheads, and will not be another film where a character is a skinhead and therefore automatically a racist.. on a 'road to Domascus' style voyage to enlightenment (demonstrated by them no longer appearing as a skinhead just to enforce the stereotyping as far as possible!).
One of the first things that the film production tried to organise was to strike a deal with Trojan Records for the film soundtrack. I don't know what you think about that, but it hardly lends itself to showing the usual Hollywood Nazi-skinhead does it?!

Of course, like everyone else other than yourself on this message board (I think), I am not a skinhead and so I could never fully appreciate how much of a concern this is for you.
As for the 'big man' not commenting, well that's probably cos he's too busy actually filming. There have been no posts from him for a while now.
I must say this has started a pretty healthy debate.... the first proper one we've had! Hope you keep visiting Canuckskin!

[Phill]

The on set report and photographs are on their way this coming week...I've been there and talked to Shane,your fears are unfounded IMO.

[Mandy]

Canuckskin said:

Easy for you to say - The movie isn't going to cause people to look at you like a stark raving racist, is it?

If this bothers you so much, why do you continue to be a skinhead? It's your choice.

[Canuckskin]

mandy said:

Canuckskin said:

Easy for you to say - The movie isn't going to cause people to look at you like a stark raving racist, is it?

If this bothers you so much, why do you continue to be a skinhead? It's your choice.

That's a very silly question.
You must be a youth councellor.

[Mark Sherbert]

Canuckskin said:

Mark said:

But the best way to confront a problem is to bring it out into the open; people see a film about it and they can debate and hopefully overcome it. You might say that this particular problem has been confronted enough, but it obviously has'nt because the BNP still has strong support in a lot of places in the UK.

The BNP is hardly linked to Skinheads anymore, but
What, did you think it was going to magically go away?
That making movies about ignorant fools will solve the problem? Life has a habit of imitating art. Exposing people to these issues only prolongs their existance.
Anti Fascist groups always thought that teaching people about what the racist ideology was about would help them better understand what they were up against socially, until some of them began flirting with right wing extremism themselves. All they really managed to do was spread the literature of their enemy for them.
If you take the racism and the sexism out of media, it becomes trivial. The benchmark in which society can use to measure that particular attitude doesn't exist thus people move on to whatever else is available.
That's how unfortunately shallow and flaky human
Sociology can be. the style in every movie, record and video game, as long as it's visually accessible will be impersonated.
When Romper Stomper came out in theatres, the amount of White Power Skinheads in our town tripled.
Teenagers who were never exposed to Skinheads before used it as a template for their naturally rebellious angst. It was stupid. Same thing happened with American History X.
Right now i'm currently dealing with a teen who's been running around quoting shit from the movie like it was some kind of phenomenon, talking about "Curbstomping" people.
So Say what you will.
Affiliating Skinheads with racism in this movie is a mistake.
I know, because I come from where this always ends up.
When you release it, i'll prove it to you.

So this is where we agree to disagree, because I don't believe in blaming films or computer games for society's fuck-ups. For someone who seems to be anti-fascist you seem to have some pretty right wing ideas and theories. Shane Meadows makes intelligent films for intelligent people. So don't bother watching them.

[Mark Sherbert]

P.S.The majority of us have probably been the victims of stereotyping at some point in our lives; most of us just get on with it rather than bitch about it on a message board and blame it on film directors.

[jtrodreigez]

OK Im gonna go out on a limb here and try to raise the bar,

Fuck you ya jumped up twat, i have a shaved head so fucking what. Im making a film about street violence and chav cunts but i dont want to offend the genuine Hoody crowd so i better not.

Up your fucking Borstal!!!

[Canuckskin]

jtrodreigez said:

OK Im gonna go out on a limb here and try to raise the bar,

Fuck you ya jumped up twat, i have a shaved head so fucking what. Im making a film about street violence and chav cunts but i dont want to offend the genuine Hoody crowd so i better not.

Up your fucking Borstal!!!

Nice one John, thank you for proving what I already knew, that you were a Billy no mates that drinks, Gambles, and mouths off from the safety of his computer.
I wouldn't give you the sweat off a sumo's diaper.

I'm not an Anti Fascist, Mark - I'm just anti Ignorant.

Phill, I'm interested to see those pics

And Dave, if you think he's going to present the line between the Skinheads and beliefs, i'll take your word, especially if Trojan is going to be involved.

[jtrodreigez]

ok canuck,

"Nice one John, thank you for proving what I already knew, that you were a Billy no mates that drinks, Gambles, and mouths off from the safety of his computer."

where is your hidden camera cause you get me pretty much bang on there, i also do drugs and i am a pervert too.

[PatrickCoyle]

Canuckskin said:

mandy said:

If this bothers you so much, why do you continue to be a skinhead? It's your choice.

That's a very silly question.
You must be a youth councellor.

But one you don't have an answer to, nonetheless. "Because all the cool kids were doing it"? Habit? So that you can take offence at FILMS?

My word, sir. Your swastika analogy was so off the mark that I don't know if you're just here to stir up a debate, because you surely can't be genuine. Nobody is that oversensitive in this day and age.