Meggy and Banjo.... **SPOILERS**

[DeLarge]

I've mentioned this and others have too. There's been no answers or explanations as far as I'm aware. How are Meggy and Banjo part of the young friends gang? I know over time things change, Harvey is a perfect example of this as are the fact others aren't there now. Friends do grow apart, move on over time - it happens.

But these two is something I'm rather uneasy with? The fact they're 15/20 years older than the rest is one argument, the other is in the film Banjo arrives with Combo (Meggy's around already but not explained how IIRC?) and are exposed a pair of horrible vile, racists. The last we see of them is Meggy egging Combo on when he's beating the life out of Milky and Banjo holding Shaun down. So how in the four years since then have they become part of this gang and mellowed into this light hearted almost comedy double act?
For instance, during the fight with Flip and co, technically Banjo should've just strolled forward and put Flip on his arse.
Because in the film he's a big horrible bastard. No?

I'm not being negative or moaning for the sake of it, it's a great film and has been a great series thus far, this is just one bit that has baffled and bemused me. Forget about double glazing, ring pulls and superficial things that aren't integral tot the plot, just a genuine interest and query of how they're where they are and accepted?

[Dave]

I'm hoping that now Combo is back, all will be explained.

Even if we never get an explanation, I bet Shane and the cast worked out the back story of the previous four years.

Didn't Combo meet Banjo in prison? So banjo wasn't previously known to any of the gang.

[thegooddoctor]

The best line in the last episode was Harvey comparing Gadget's 'tache to "Bonnie Langford's fanny". I deduce from this that one-time antagonist Harv has become part of the gang 'cos he's a funny fucker - and everyone loves a funny fucker, don't they?

As such, it stands to reason that Banjo and Meggy are also funny fuckers. Witness, for example, the latter's exploits with the piss bag and the sage-like advice that "if you can tame her - dip your bread, son".

[sleezen]

Sept 26, 2010 12:34:27 GMT DeLarge said:

For instance, during the fight with Flip and co, technically Banjo should've just strolled forward and put Flip on his arse.
Because in the film he's a big horrible bastard. No?

I know what you mean about banjo he was a scary fucker in the film now he is like a big puppy!
and it will be good to see what combo has to say for himself in ep4 on tuesday and see how he has changed, maybe with combo's appearance we will also find out why banjo changed so much.

who knows we might not even find out until tie '90 or ever

[chardelli]

I dont think it really needs to be explained at all. I think its good to leave these things unexplained. I dont think its that unusual that they are still friends with the gang.

From my memory Meggy calls Combo "Mad as a March hare" and Banjo gets glassed. I think Combo was very much the leader and M and B losers that followed. They probably finally saw the ludicrousy of it all with the shocking violence at the end.

They're a pair of losers that are unlikely to have any other mates anyway. Hanging around with people like Woody for the past 3 years will have had a good affect on them.

But I do agree with you on the fight scene you'd have thought Banjo would have been able to take the whole scooter gang on his own.

[Dave]

Sept 26, 2010 15:29:46 GMT chardelli said:

From my memory Meggy calls Combo "Mad as a March hare" and Banjo gets glassed. I think Combo was very much the leader and M and B losers that followed. They probably finally saw the ludicrousy of it all with the shocking violence at the end.

Meggy maybe, I don't think many people are questioning his position (he was hanging round with the gang for years it seems if the film is anything to go by).

Banjo says something particularly indefensible after Combo has gone mental in the film though, which paints him as utterly racist, worse than Combo.
I always got the impression that Banjo was one of the main reasons why Combo came out of prison with the attitude he did.

[sugarbeat]

This all stems from the fact that the series is a split of comedy and drama. Banjo and Meggy seem to have been placed on the comedy side. The whole fight scene was played for laughs, and that's fine. But it's not 'real'. The violence was cartoon. The violence in the Mick scenes, and at the end of the film isn't cartoon, it's real. So you have to switch mindsets when watching, I think.

So if you look at it from a strictly dramatic point of view, Banjo seems completely out of character when compared to the film. But I'm trying to watch his scenes as if he's wandered into a comedy. And I think it's interesting to see how you can take a character and show them from another angle.

[peabob]

I don't think it's too out there to assume they've gone through some self-aware changes, but the most important thing is we the audience know it. It might be why the first instance we get of them in '86 is in the comical misfitting suits and trying to squeeze down the hallway together like Laurel and Hardy. Just a way of disarming them for the viewers.

[billywizz]

Sept 26, 2010 12:50:07 GMT Dave said:

I'm hoping that now Combo is back, all will be explained.

I think this will be the case. It will be interesting to see how long Combo has been away too. If he knows where Shaun's new house is maybe not all that long?

[sleezen]

Sept 26, 2010 20:18:03 GMT peabob said:

I don't think it's too out there to assume they've gone through some self-aware changes, but the most important thing is we the audience know it. It might be why the first instance we get of them in '86 is in the comical misfitting suits and trying to squeeze down the hallway together like Laurel and Hardy. Just a way of disarming them for the viewers.

And i completely agree with you on that, but for me it was too large a change for it not to be noticed, i just think he should still have a bit of bite in him, not in a racist way of course!

i just cant get on with him being violent then going completely docile puppydog in '86

i mean shane is a genious but it doesn't mean i have to like everything he does

Perhaps Banjo might be in the spotlight a little more when '90 is on our tv screens

[Gareth]

Sept 26, 2010 15:55:50 GMT Dave said:

Sept 26, 2010 15:29:46 GMT chardelli said:

From my memory Meggy calls Combo "Mad as a March hare" and Banjo gets glassed. I think Combo was very much the leader and M and B losers that followed. They probably finally saw the ludicrousy of it all with the shocking violence at the end.

Meggy maybe, I don't think many people are questioning his position (he was hanging round with the gang for years it seems if the film is anything to go by).

Banjo says something particularly indefensible after Combo has gone mental in the film though, which paints him as utterly racist, worse than Combo.
I always got the impression that Banjo was one of the main reasons why Combo came out of prison with the attitude he did.

what does Banjo say? this has came up before and I'm sure he says "I want out of this" or something to that effect

[kelpie]

Sept 27, 2010 4:42:08 GMT Gareth said:

Sept 26, 2010 15:55:50 GMT Dave said:

Meggy maybe, I don't think many people are questioning his position (he was hanging round with the gang for years it seems if the film is anything to go by).

Banjo says something particularly indefensible after Combo has gone mental in the film though, which paints him as utterly racist, worse than Combo.
I always got the impression that Banjo was one of the main reasons why Combo came out of prison with the attitude he did.

what does Banjo say? this has came up before and I'm sure he says "I want out of this" or something to that effect

Yeah, I always thought that Banjo said something like that or "I don't want any part of this". First time I watched the film, I thought that Banjo, whilst a little racist, was shocked by Combo's sudden violence. I thought he held Shaun down to stop him getting hurt by trying to help. Everyone else saw it differently though, so I assumed I was wrong. Have we ever had confirmation?

[DeLarge]

In the film as well as Shaun being led astray Gadget also goes that way, the rest of the gang don't want to be part of it. Their excuse is they're young and naive. Meggy tries to shit on the floor of Mr Sandhu's shop and is spraying racist graffiti on the shop beforehand (with Banjo and Gadget), he has no excuse and Banjo is a vile beast. During the scene where Combo beats Milky up Banjo laughs approvingly (all the while holding Shaun down) and after says "Fucking all day we've sat and listened to him, (Milky) I want some of this. We want our bit!" Before Combo smashes a bottle on his head, grapples with Meggy and calls him a fat piece of shit and forces them both out. The transformation into light relief comedy characters is a bit too much too stomach for me, moreso because they don't really appear to fit in now? Though I'll wait to see if there's some explanation tomorrow.

[thegooddoctor]

Christ. Four years have passed; people change. Combo knocks the shit out of Banjo in that scene, recall, and Meggy realises that he's a nutter too. Extreme violence is always pivotal and life-changing in Meadows' films: is it too hard to accept that the brutality of the assault on Milky might have been enough to make Meggy & Banjo renounce their affiliation with the NF and, y'know, lighten up a bit? Plus, even Combo is hardly unsympathetic: "TiE" makes entirely clear that there is no such thing as "innate" racism, and that people become "big 'orrible bastards" and are drawn towards extremist politics because they are socially/psychologically/emotionally/economically disenfranchised.

*SPOILERS ARfRB, OUTIM, 24-7*

Again, expunging 'problematic' individuals from communities as a means to renew those communities is often central to Meadows's work: think of Morell beings sent packing and the subsequent happy end (complete with cross-dressing!) in "...Romeo Brass"; Robert Carlyle heading back up the M6 to Glasgae in "Once Upon a Time..."; and even Darcy's death in 24/7 seems to prompt a sense of social renewal and a collective forgiveness of the sins of the past.

*SPOILER ENDS*

Try reading between the lines, eh? The internet certainly does bring the pedants out of the woodwork, sometimes...

[Dave]

Sept 27, 2010 4:42:08 GMT Gareth said:

Sept 26, 2010 15:55:50 GMT Dave said:

Meggy maybe, I don't think many people are questioning his position (he was hanging round with the gang for years it seems if the film is anything to go by).

Banjo says something particularly indefensible after Combo has gone mental in the film though, which paints him as utterly racist, worse than Combo.
I always got the impression that Banjo was one of the main reasons why Combo came out of prison with the attitude he did.

what does Banjo say? this has came up before and I'm sure he says "I want out of this" or something to that effect

I'm pretty sure he says something that is pretty much the complete opposite of what you think he says.
Something like: "I want in on this"
That's why Combo attacks him, because even though he's just snapped and attacked Milky, he's immediately realised what he's done is mental, so he hates on Banjo for wanting in on the attack on Milky.