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Post by saffy on Dec 16, 2011 20:50:08 GMT
Watching the last one .. A bit of a tribute in part to Ken Russell, Shane?
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Post by kelpie on Dec 16, 2011 21:19:38 GMT
The Lol and Combo relationship was just about the only thing I'd struggled to accept in TIE 86. Lol's 'worst night of my life' in the film was pretty damning, after all. I thought that scene was handled-and played-really well. Thought it was really left up to the audience to 'read it.' My reading was that Lol wanted to repair the hurt to Combo, not because whatever she'd felt before wasn't real, but because her feelings towards Combo have now changed-all kinds of mixed emotions-but mainly guilt about where he now is. I thought the 'love you' was more a 'thank you' and 'I'm sorry.' That's more how I read it. I think, piecing things together, that Lol and Combo did used to be close. He was there for her when she was a kid. BUT he was always volatile and she didn't like that side to him. what happened between them was not the worst night of her life, but I doubt she felt as he did. She was drunk and 16 and he was a bit too old for her. At the time she said those words to Combo, he was not being a good man. He had hurt so many people already and was going to hurt more. In retrospect though, Lol's heart has softened again as Combo has changed. While the harshness may have been warranted at the time, she doesn't want him carrying those words with him while he suffers for her. Some of the last words he said to her were how he loves her, but knows she doesn't love him. She just wanted to let him know she does care. I missed a line of Combo's in that scene btw. Did he say that Lol would do the same thing for him, or point out that he'd done the same thing for Woody? |
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Post by jill on Dec 16, 2011 21:42:10 GMT
While the harshness may have been warranted at the time, she doesn't want him carrying those words with him while he suffers for her. Some of the last words he said to her were how he loves her, but knows she doesn't love him. She just wanted to let him know she does care. I missed a line of Combo's in that scene btw. Did he say that Lol would do the same thing for him, or point out that he'd done the same thing for Woody? Yes, completely agree with you. I thought he said he'd do the same thing again. And he would. Combo's feelings for Lol are a big part of the film, conveyed in small looks and that 'I'm made up for you' line. Combo's the 'fall guy'-although nobody's 'escaped'-least of all Lol. The writing in TIE 88 and the thought that's gone into the characters and stories is knock out. |
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Post by kelpie on Dec 16, 2011 22:31:52 GMT
That makes sense. If Combo took the fall for Woody once, he'd do it for Lol a million times over without question.
The thing with Combo... He isn't a good man, but he is a noble one. He's also one with tragically little to lose. He almost seems resigned to a life behind bars. He's sort of the Sydney Carton figure.
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Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2011 22:50:43 GMT
That makes sense. If Combo took the fall for Woody once, he'd do it for Lol a million times over without question. The thing with Combo... He isn't a good man, but he is a noble one. He's also one with tragically little to lose. He almost seems resigned to a life behind bars. He's sort of the Sydney Carton figure. Maybe I'm being ultra slow here, but maybe Combo went down for Woody (prior to the events of the original film) in order to protect Lol's happiness... because other wise she would have been losing her partner to prison. So maybe Combo went down for the sake of Lol then too! |
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Post by RydCook on Dec 16, 2011 23:02:16 GMT
The fight scene was amazing. Especially since it was done in one take and fully improvised with no rehearsal! It felt very real to me. I felt so sorry for Woody. I've never been in his shoes, but I have been in the position the gang have. To them, they didn't turn away from Woody, he turned away from them. Milky didn't have a problem with Woody, it was Woody who had the issue with Milky and so he ended up ostracised by default. Only, to Woody it seemed like they sided with the guilty party rather than the victim and he didn't understand why. I liked him throwing Combo's words back at Milky. I think Woody grew up when he was able to become the one to build bridges in the end. I also hope he stays friends with Jennifer, because she seemed to really understand him. No rehearsal for the fight scene either? That true? That's incredible. Says a lot for how amazing all of the cast are. You're spot on with those comments. Its always the victim that gets ostracised. And the victim only ever feels worse for it. Woody quoting Combo "You're the snake in the grass" was incredibly powerful. |
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Post by jim woolley on Dec 16, 2011 23:08:12 GMT
Dave, I think those relationship things are left vague because they're part of the childhood aspect of TIE - Combo is a man-child. Witness Shane M's avatar picture on here. The birth of a 'black baby' by Lol is not too unexpected within this drama - I don't really know if she even liked Milky that much! I just got the impression she was having a laugh. I loved the whole dream sequence and the vision of a distorted religious vision. Can anyone explain or discern what the brief subliminal image was in the dream/ religious epiphany Lol had whilst she was puking her guts out as we got a clip of Pukey in the swimming baths down Nottingham way was which looked like a hand squeezing a foetus? I didn't imagine TIE 88 would go this extreme - I was shocked and pretty damned disturbed to be honest by the last ep - Jeez Louise I just want to say thanks Meadows/ Lol/ Gilgun/ Turgoose and the Langley Mill/ Ilkeston/ etc lot who put their shagadelic acting chops to work on this. Gilgun really shook me in this - I've heard people who've said he's a little OTT or exaggerated but I thought he was GREAT - film-worthy acting on a par with Malcom McDowell in 'A Clockwork Orange' - he was on the edge for what it's worth within the constraints of TIE 88 and I thought he was a real presence in this work, surpassing Considine belive it or not!
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Post by wheatabeat on Dec 17, 2011 0:27:40 GMT
Amazing amazing stuff. I watched all three together in sequence. Jawdroppingly awesome.
I wonder if it'll ever get to TIE 1998 when the internet starts booming and Lol actually finds out her name is actually an acronym for laughing loads.
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Post by bich8string on Dec 17, 2011 0:45:42 GMT
Shane, the wife is still in Labour, but she managed to catch the last episode on 4OD and she says she hates YOU, I asked what she meant, and she said "He does it every bleedin' time, cuts it off, I want to know what happens to Lol and Woody tommorow and the next day, I want to see Woody meet Lisa, see if Shaun makes it up with Smell"
She loved it though :-)
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Post by shanemeadows on Dec 17, 2011 8:28:25 GMT
Congrats mate. Christmas babies are the coolest by far. Hope all goes well with the birth bro.
X.
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Post by bich8string on Dec 17, 2011 9:34:35 GMT
Thanks Shane, this will be the 4th and bloody last, I'm getting too old for this shit ha ha ha
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Post by kelpie on Dec 17, 2011 10:04:58 GMT
Congratulations on the little one - hope they arrive safely.
Dave, that would make Combo even more of a Sydney Carton figure. I'm not sure that Woody and Lol were dating properly then though. Lol was maybe in the crisp buying stage still. That's the impression I got from the film - that they became official while Combo was inside. Also, the film and the commentary did imply that Woody and Combo had had their own bond. Nothing like the one with Lol, but I think Combo took the blame then because he was gang leader and Woody was a kid of 16 who looked up to him. It would be nice to explore a little of the bond Combo might once have had with Woody and Milky in TIE'90. It was never said, but he must have known Milky before the film too, as Milky was already fast with Woody and Lol.
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sludge
Junior Member
Posts: 40
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Post by sludge on Dec 17, 2011 12:25:50 GMT
It seemed to me as if Milky and Combo had never met before the first film in fact only Meggy and Woody seemed to know him, and Combo was taken aback when he was told about Woody and Lol.
Where was Meggy anyway?!
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Post by kelpie on Dec 17, 2011 13:05:17 GMT
It did seem a bit like Combo hadn't met Milky before in the film. Not to the the extent that I wouldn't believe it if told they had though. It's all a bit ambiguous. Combo knew Lol and the situation with her dad when he was 17. Given that he implied he was 32ish in the film and Lol implied she was 19/20 - which fits Woody saying he was 24/25 in '88 - then Lol would have been about 5 then. I suspect that's not quite right... But I guess he has known her since she was a child. He knew a young Woody too and they were both hanging out with Milky when they were 14. It feels like he must have met Milky.
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Post by definitelymaybe on Dec 17, 2011 14:33:59 GMT
Thank you Mr Meadows for bringing us such emotional, beautiful scenes with characters that we can actually relate to. That has to be one of the most beautiful thing I've seen on screen ever. Let's not even talk about Joseph Gilgun & Vivky McClure performances... They were both stunning. I can't think about anything else at the moment. It's haunting me!
I can't wait for This Is England '90!
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