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Post by tonyyeboah on Nov 14, 2006 15:25:36 GMT
This thread will set the cat amongst the pigeons
What are your criticisms of This is England?
I have only seen it once so this is difficult.
1. Perhaps too short a time beteween Shaun bumping into the
skins and being accepted into the group (pre Combo). Gadget
goes straight round his house to invite him out wrecking
2. That scene when the skins are walking away from the wall for
no apparent reason
3. Not much explanation of Perry Benson' character. Just seems
to be there
4. No explanation of why combo saved the other guy from prison.
Other guy seems unlikely to be the prison type
hmm that is about it i think. Like I said it is difficult because You really have to watch a film at least twice to get an even view
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Post by Hyde on Nov 14, 2006 16:03:24 GMT
None... that 1st point maybe, but nah the films perfect I wouldnt like it any other way.
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Post by tonyyeboah on Nov 14, 2006 16:11:32 GMT
I am a fan of Shanes work but there is no way that his films including TIE are perfect.
The accents for a start are all over the place. Combo sounds like a scouser wheras Woody sounds like he is from North Yorkshire. I find it quirky but some might think that it is a criticism. Be interesting to see the reviews when it comes out for real
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Post by Hyde on Nov 14, 2006 16:18:29 GMT
Does a film have to be PERFECT???
I never noticed these things your saying and dont see them as making the film any less good anyway.
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Post by Dave on Nov 14, 2006 16:20:33 GMT
I wouldn't say it was perfect, and I agree with tonyyeboah's points to some extent.
I think I mentioned in the main SPOILER CENTRAL thread that I thought it was maybe slightly odd that Shaun joins in with the gang so readily. Only Woody is being nice to him on the first encounter. I would liked to have seen Woody and the gang deal with a bully for Shaun, thus showing a good reason for Shaun to join up with them. I hear a scene of this nature was shot too.
I also thought that it would have needed Woody to go round and get Shaun to go hunting rather than Gadget who hadn't been that nice to Shaun.
You really do have a thing about that 'wall' shot! haha.. But I do see what you mean for sure.
I wanted there to be more Perry Benson!
The thing about Combo doing 'stir' for Woody is intriguing. I feel it gives Woody an unexplored darker side perhaps?
One other thing... me being in it! haha Only because I couldn't relax until my appearances in it were over! ;D
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Post by Hyde on Nov 14, 2006 16:29:21 GMT
Yeah but I wasnt in the editing room editing it together so for all I know with those scenes in it it wouldnt have been as good?
It packs a lot into its running time, which is a good thing IMO. Dont get me wrong, I'd love to see these scenes in the film, but I'm a big fan of the film. The film has to be accesible to everyone! Its better to keep it a nice little film than a long film in the longrun. IMO.
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Post by Dave on Nov 14, 2006 16:37:46 GMT
Yeah but I wasnt in the editing room editing it together so for all I know with those scenes in it it wouldnt have been as good? It packs a lot into its running time, which is a good thing IMO. Dont get me wrong, I'd love to see these scenes in the film, but I'm a big fan of the film. The film has to be accesible to everyone! Its better to keep it a nice little film than a long film in the longrun. IMO. I agree with most of that. Maybe the scene didn't work where Woody (and gang?) help Shaun out with a bully near the chippy. Although we all know who saw a version of the film with that scene in place! The Donkster and the errr Sherbertster! I think I recall Dave(2) sounding a tiny bit surprised it was missing in the finished film. I don't think the inclusion of that scene would have bumped up the running time very much.. unless there were other scenes needed aswell when the film includes the chippy scene. Maybe it was left out, as it felt too obvious. A bit of a cliche even. But I bet it had some great Woody dialogue in it! |
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Post by tonyyeboah on Nov 14, 2006 16:41:06 GMT
I think it would have worked better if Combo was Woody's older brother, because I didn't really buy into all that stuff about Combo saving him from prison, but then there would have been an issue with the accents I suppose.
Yeah I also agree Dave that a scene with the skins sorting out the bullies would have been better. Shaun seems to accept the skins and they him too quickly
+ and for Perry Benson I know his comedy potential from Operation good guys so that was perhaps a trick missed there. Definately there should have been a bit more explanation of his character at very least
Still it shows what a good film it is because TIE still pisses all over most films these days
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Post by Hyde on Nov 14, 2006 16:46:17 GMT
I know I know, the first time I ever heard about TIE was on film 200 whatever and it was on set footage of that scene. It was amazing. I'd love to see it but I'm not gonna say the film would be better with it as I havnt seen it in the final film.
Inever felt "Oh why would Shaun just be in the gang" that never crossed my mind he had no freinds and now he does! and whoever said nobody in the gang liked him except Woody, what about the girls? and he went with them hunting because why not? what else was he doing? Gadge assured him Wooday wanted him there!
I'd of liked to have seen more of Perry Benson aswell but what was there was enough to make me happy.
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Post by Dave on Nov 14, 2006 16:59:51 GMT
Inever felt "Oh why would Shaun just be in the gang" that never crossed my mind he had no freinds and now he does! and whoever said nobody in the gang liked him except Woody, what about the girls? and he went with them hunting because why not? what else was he doing? Gadge assured him Wooday wanted him there! It crossed my mind that the relationship had occured very quickly while I was watching the scene with Gadget going round to collect Shaun. However, I did also think that Shaun is quite accepting of Gadget's invitation (after a brief bit of reluctance), because Shaun has seen that Gadget is kind of the dogsbody of the gang (carrying all that stuff.. and in the underpass scene having his pie destroyed! haha), so Shaun knows that gang-leader Woody has treated him really well... so he's already one up on Gadget. As for the girls.... Shaun doesn't meet them until he's already in the gang does he? |
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Post by Hyde on Nov 14, 2006 17:17:22 GMT
Yeah definately I agree with that, thats why I never thought to myself "oh this is happening to quick"
and well yeah.. he could have met the girls the same day as the hunting. What I mean is theres more reason for Shaun to want to be in the gang than just Woody. Plus its not really like the other lads disline Shaun, only Gadget, and thats quickly solved anyway.
It all fitted to me as I was watching it.
The divide between the gang felt a little forced at first (dont get me wrong I love that whole scene) but its blaates much needed and now I wouldnt have it any different.
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Post by PatrickCoyle on Nov 14, 2006 17:22:02 GMT
Shaun joining the gang so readily never seemed a problem for me. We've seen how lonely he is and he's looking for friends and role models. Woody likes him from the beginning, and Woody is the leader of the gang - and he feels bad about them picking on him, so he sends Gadge round to make amends.
My only problem with the film is, as I've said before, the "good" gang leave too soon. And that's not really a criticism, as the film couldn't just be all happy and fun until the end. If there was one thing I'd suggest, I think I'd prefer the ending of Shaun reuniting with the gang.
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Post by Hyde on Nov 14, 2006 17:27:09 GMT
I know mate but its easy to say that as you've only seen the ending we've seen. Know what I mean? plus we know there is one out there. If you didnt, would you really care?
I personally love the ending the way it is, although this other one would be interesting to see as I honestly cant see it ending any other way.
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Post by PatrickCoyle on Nov 14, 2006 17:43:41 GMT
Yeah, I was actually hoping at the end when Shaun went out that we would see the reappearance of Woody, Kezz, Gadge and the gang... I like the ending as it is, but as I've said, I am a big fan of the original gang.
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Post by pointblank on Nov 14, 2006 21:45:56 GMT
i feel that shauns acceptance into the gang from having no friends to having the wrong kind of friends ie combo and banjo and back to being alone(better to be alone and bullyed than in with those guys,kind of way) was perfect. he wanted to make his father proud but hating everyone did not bring him back. please do not try to over complicate this it is after all only a movie........
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